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  1. #1
    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    Australian media has created an utter furore and allowed dozens of prudish s to have complete hissy fits in recent months over the issue of images of naked children.

    First, the photographer Bill Henson had an exhibition in which a 12 or 13 year old girl was depicted *shock* *horror* in the nude. The images were black and white, and quite tasteful, no legs spread or ankles behind the ears, just a girl standing there with various expressions - pretty much beautiful images. Just a girl in her natural state, and not sexualized at all.

    The art gallery was raided by the cops, the photographs confiscated, and Henson was possibly going to be charged with child-porn type offenses. Eventually the ratings board classified the images as PG and they were returned, and he was not charged with anything.

    There was another case in which a mother took photos of her sons naked, and while the prints were being developed at a store the police were called, she was arrested and charged with offenses, and it took the poor woman some years and a jury trial in order to be cleared of heinous offenses.

    And now it has happened again. An Australian art magazine has a tasteful pic of a 6 year old girl on its cover, and the media is going ape over it.

    Here it is - WARNING: Horrendous Child Porn! My eyes! My eyes!


    http://www.artmonthly.org.au/

    NOTE: I got permission from a Senior Mod to link this here!


    OK, now here is what irritates the crap out of me. People from the Prime Minister to State Premiers have labelled such images as 'disgusting', 'revolting', 'sick' etc. What the hell? They are beautiful! How dare a grown man tell a child that their naked body is somehow 'revolting'! What sort of a creep would think like that? And believe me, these kids who are the subjects of these attacks upon their bodily integrity do hear about it. The 6 year old girl is now 11, and was on SBS news last night saying how offended she was that some asshat would say such things about her innocence.

    http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...76-662,00.html

    Olympia Nelson defends photo of her on Art Monthly coverArticle from: Font size: Decrease Increase Email article: Email Print article: Print Submit comment: Submit comment Rachel Hewitt

    July 07, 2008 12:22pm
    A CHILD whose nude photo appears on the cover of an art magazine says she is offended by Kevin Rudd's comments about the images.

    Art Monthly magazine sparked fresh controversy over naked images of children by publishing an image of six-year-old Olympia Nelson on its July cover.

    Click here to see the uncensored image

    The pictures of Olympia, who is now 11, were taken in 2003 by her mother, Melbourne artist Polixeni Papapetrou.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Poll: Can pictures of a nude child ever be art?
    Your say: More of your comments on the issue

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Speaking in Melbourne today, Olympia said the photographs were not child abuse.

    “No, it’s not child abuse, in no way. I think that the picture that my mum took of me has nothing to do with being abused,” she told Sky News.

    Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said yesterday he would pull funding for the magazine if it did not comply with new protocols over the depiction of children.

    Olympia said today she was “really, really offended” by what Mr Rudd said about the picture.

    She said the Prime Minister's comments about Bill Henson’s works, which caused a furore earlier this year, were “really, really rude”.

    “For him to be talking about my picture, the picture with me in it, it doesn’t feel very good.”

    The girl described the images of her as “really, really nice”, and said the ideas for some of the pictures inside the magazine were hers.

    Art Monthly editor Maurice O'Riordan said he hoped the edition would "validate nudity and childhood as subjects for art'' and restore some "dignity to the debate".

    The art critic for The Age, Robert Nelson, who is Papapetrou's husband and Olympia's father, said the family had no regrets and the photograph was a great work of art.

    Professor Nelson, an Associate Dean in the Art and Design faculty at Monash University, said the images were made in good faith and conceived creatively.

    He said the family was aware of the risks involved in such images, but “on the basis of no shortage of research”, they felt there was only “a very, very weak link” between child abuse and imagery.

    “There's always some risk that someone will look at a picture and develop malevolent intentions but it's a very, very small risk,” Professor Nelson said.

    “What we know of the research is that most cases of genuine child abuse occur in families. Olympia is growing up in a very secure family where that's not a risk.

    “The risk from outside the family is very, very slight based on this research, so it seemed to us a perfectly legitimate thing to be producing images that are clearly artistically conceived. That seemed to us beautiful and sublime.

    “We're kind of not surprised in a way, given what occurred with Bill Henson, that this blew up. People's concern is understandable but I think it that it should be informed"

    "Seeing a child naked is not child abuse.”

    Bravehearts executive director Hetty Johnston branded the publication of the photos in the magazine "sexual exploitation of children'', and said artistic merit should not override the rights and protection of a child.

    "When those two things collide we have to err with the children, it has to be in the best interests of the children,'' Ms Johnston told the Nine Network today.

    "I can't see in any circumstance where taking a photograph of a naked child is in the child's best interests.

    "We need laws to make it clear, the laws are flaky and the laws aren't able to protect children."
    I think the entire thing is just ridiculous. When I was a kid at the beach we all used to run around naked, other kids did too. Big fricking deal. I have a photo in which me and my brothers and sisters were lined up nude with our bums showing to display the difference between our tans and our white bums. It seems I had better burn the image or I could be arrested. I have photos of my own kids in the bath, also. Damn! I must be a ing pedo!

    There is an ad on TV for baby wipes or baby powder or something in which a loving mum kisses a baby's bum cheek. I don't know how that actress has escaped the gallows, quite frankly, in this time of neo-Victorian prudishness.

    Don't get me wrong - the moment someone sexualizes images of children I support bringing the mallet down upon their heads, whether the images be clothed or unclothed. But just artistic images? Please.

    What do you guys think about this? Where is the line drawn? Is nakedness automatically sexualized anywhere but in the mind of the beholder? Should it be banned?
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; July 07, 2008 at 08:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Niles Crane's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    It's hardly new boof. There was an album in the late 60s that had its cover changed in the US because it displayed the image of a nude preteen.

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    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Octy View Post
    It's hardly new boof. There was an album in the late 60s that had its cover changed in the US because it displayed the image of a nude preteen.
    Well, it's bloody ridiculous. This is the Western world in 2008, not Victorian England circa 1870 FFS.

  4. #4
    Niles Crane's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    Did you really think the new government would be more liberal just because they're called 'Labour'?

  5. #5
    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Octy View Post
    Did you really think the new government would be more liberal just because they're called 'Labour'?
    I would expect people apparently intelligent enough to become heads of government to have the moral integrity not to tell children that they are 'revolting' in their natural state.

    (And they're called 'Labor', BTW.)

    It's okay for Lego-hair Rudd to get drunk in a strip-club but the moment he sees a naked child he squeals 'disgusting!'

    What an asshat.

  6. #6
    Syron's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    If it's any consolation there have been similar cases in the UK so it's not just Australia.
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  7. #7
    Captain Blackadder's Avatar A bastion of sanity
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    Hear hear boofhead this is the biggest media beat up I did laugh at the comments by some when saying that the photos were abusing children because it was promoting a political message that the kid couldn't understand hypocrisy much how many anti work choices ads did I see at the election with cute kiddies looking sad at how work choices had destroyed their lives we should arrest the ACTU for this abuse of children.
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    It's Child Porn.

    It also Legitimatizes those Soft-core porn child Model sites.

  9. #9
    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Burnum View Post
    It's Child Porn.

    It also Legitimatizes those Soft-core porn child Model sites.
    Are you serious? Is the famous statue of David porn? That statue actually shows genitalia *oh, the horror*

    BTW, I had that image put before a Senior Mod before I linked it here. It's permissable to link it on TWC - do you think I could link a "soft-core porn child model site"?

    There is a massive difference, as this image in NOT sexualized. Or do you get aroused by looking at it?

  10. #10
    Dayman's Avatar Romesick
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    It's Child Porn.
    por·nog·ra·phy - obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, esp. those having little or no artistic merit.

    That isn't porn.

  11. #11
    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    WARNING: Gay Porn, obviously.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  12. #12

    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    I think 12 - 13 year olds are kinda too old to be displayed in the nude and not expected to appear pornographic. For me only under 8 years old can be seen as 'innocent' art.


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    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    Quote Originally Posted by jankren View Post
    I think 12 - 13 year olds are kinda too old to be displayed in the nude and not expected to appear pornographic. For me only under 8 years old can be seen as 'innocent' art.
    So what about the ancient Greek statues of naked goddesses?

    Porn?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    Come on guys. Sculptures of David can't be compared with nude photographs of kids.
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; July 07, 2008 at 08:53 PM.

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    Thompson45cal.'s Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    1st........ WTG mods 2 thumbs way up!
    Link removed. I don't think visuals are quite necessary.

    2nd I don't think it would be an issue, if there wasn't a bunch of sickos who would or could use said "art work" to mis-lead a young person ..... "look it's ok, look it's just art.......etc......" into acts that most people think are deplorable.

    Thompson45cal.

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    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Thompson45cal. View Post
    1st........ WTG mods 2 thumbs way up!
    Link removed. I don't think visuals are quite necessary.
    LOL, LINK RE-ESTABLISHED.

    2nd I don't think it would be an issue, if there wasn't a bunch of sickos who would or could use said "art work" to mis-lead a young person ..... "look it's ok, look it's just art.......etc......" into acts that most people think are deplorable.

    Thompson45cal.
    But it is just art. Just because one person in a million is a sick bastard doesn't mean everyone else is.

    Should we put a burka on the child? Would that be more appropriate?

    EDIT: Appreciation is due to TWC mods, Ponti, Pann, Scorch, who obviously have intelligent minds, and can see through the media hysterics.
    Last edited by boofhead; July 07, 2008 at 09:00 PM.

  17. #17
    Thompson45cal.'s Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    Quote Originally Posted by boofhead View Post
    LOL, LINK RE-ESTABLISHED.
    I have a hard time with on-line sarcasm......... I thought you was posting an example of child porn....... my apologies in that regard. I still feel it's a dangerous avenue for sickos to use to take advantage of small unknowing children.

    Thompson45cal.

  18. #18
    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Thompson45cal. View Post
    I have a hard time with on-line sarcasm......... I thought you was posting an example of child porn....... my apologies in that regard. I still feel it's a dangerous avenue for sickos to use to take advantage of small unknowing children.

    Thompson45cal.
    No worries Thompson45cal. Look I have kids myself, aged 13, 6 and 5. The last thing I would ever promote would be the abuse of children in any way, shape or form.

  19. #19
    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    Quote Originally Posted by _Pontifex_ View Post
    Pictures of nude minors or nude anything will not be tolerated. Art or not, Pictures of Naked children should not be posted here.

    Come on guys. Sculptures of David can't be compared with nude photographs of kids.
    Jesus, Pontifex, get it together. I asked Pann (a senior mod) about it first.

    Originally Posted by boofhead
    Hey,

    I was considering starting a thread about the recent ridiculous media furore in my country about the issue of 'indecent material', child-porn etc.

    My query relates to whether or not it would be okay to link to the material in question, which in my mind is terribly tame and quite tasteful, but I am unsure as to how it would be viewed if I linked it on TWC.

    ------removed--------by me-------

    That would be the only link I would make, in order to make a point.

    Would that be okay?

    boofhead
    I'm assumig that you'll start this thread in an appropriate forum, be it Ethos or Mudpit (Arts wouldn't be advisable, since the character of that forum isn't suited to this discussion). If so, you can link to that magazine, which AFAICS is legit. This article may also be of interest to you.
    ---edited out-----
    Last edited by boofhead; July 07, 2008 at 09:03 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Idiotic Australians and Naked Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald von Wolkenstein View Post
    If one considers the naked body alone "pornography," one is most likely psychically ill.
    Or just coming from a different culture which holds different standards.


    "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." -- Robert Pirsig

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