Drugs and Drug Use

[Chaigidel]

Perspective or Just plain dangerous?


1 perspective; using drugs shows you how malleable your mind is to chemicals, shows you that you have a choice no matter what your brain is doing; it makes you appreciate the hidden beauty in things ( esp hallucinogens) --- and allows the masses the day to day stress relief that most require-- whether it is your hot cup of tea, or stiff shot of burbon; we all have methods both chemical and non chemical to relax and relieve the stress of day to day life-- drugs serve a great purpose in this dept as well .
(all in moderation of course)

2. Just plain dangerous--- they mess with structures not meant to be messed with, they cause chemical imbalances; they can make a person rely on the drug rather than themselves to solve coping issues as related to stress; they provide for crime and war in several nations; and they almost always serve one black market or another; even the so called benign drugs can have long term ill effects on critical organs ( and benefits :x) ; the foement rebellion and distrust of the government; they foement conflict on an individual basis.


throw in your two cents on one or the other

[gambit]

Right now, obviously they're just plain dangerous. Yet, some of the danger can't be avoided. The illegal drug trade is an obvious centre of debate. If most of the drugs were legal, there would at first be no need for the drug trade. Cartels and other crime thrive off of it. The U.S. war on drugs is indeed a dangerous one.

That raises the question, should they be legalized to avoid this continued conflict? The biggest problem is obviously, if you legalize drugs like coke, meth, speed, heroine etc. you'll have junkies in the streets, and people OD-ing on the stuff. But why is that not so bad? Because we already have that. Most of the people stupid enough to do the worst of the drugs are also willing to disobey the law. Nothing short of a complete totalitarian regime will be able to stop people from doing them. There is no perfect happy solution to it.

Personally think there should be alot more education about drugs, maybe in schools. I remember the school counselor once held an assembly where he basically said "Drugs are bad mmkay" then he showed us some pics of people in jail and that was that. Other than that, all I see are the rather biased 'above the influence' commercials that make it seem like if you smoke one joint, you become a slave and will do anything for it.

[McGness]

Drugs are legalized. Drugs which americans do not produce themselves are sadly illegal. Marijuana and Meth are the exceptions.

[Hound_Of_Culann]

Well, I think most people, even those who have had experiences with legal and illegal drugs (including myself) will not deny that drugs really ARE bad for you. For example, my grandmother was a really bad alcoholic for most of her life. She drank away most of the family savings and could not properly raise her 3 daughters due to her addiction. Drugs really are dangerous and are not for everyone. It takes alot of self control and lucky genetics to be able to use drugs responsibly. I've never really let myself slip into addiction, but that's only because I was never a person who thought "this will never happen to me", I'm full aware of the fact that drug addiction may be written into my genes. When I have a bottle of vodka, an E pill or some leftover tramadol in my nightstand I know it's only a matter of time before I consume them on impulse, so I take my precautions by never keeping large quantities of drugs in my house.

However, it doesn't take a genius to realise that keeping drugs illegal, and drug use a hush-hush under the table affair makes them way more dangerous than they already are. Not only is it impossible to stop people from taking drugs, the drug war is also the main reason organized crime is still not eradicated. Illegal drugs is where the big money is made for criminals. I hate how some people refuse to believe that drug lords WANT drugs to remain illegal! Think about it: prohibition is what gave them their fortune. The current situation could never be better for them. And each time a new crackdown on drug dealers is launched, the dealers cheer, because then the prices skyrocket and they make more money. The only real victims of these so-called 'crackdowns' are the smalltime dealers and the drug users themselves, who are pushed deeper into poverty, reinforcing the cycle of wanting to use drugs in order to escape reality.

Drug legalization will also mean that drug "pushers" and shady street dealers will be a thing of the past. Drugs will be purchased in legal establishments, no longer cut with toxic adulterants thus reducing the risks of overdose. It also doesn't even mean that drug use itself will rise. This may be hard to believe for most people, but look at the existing numbers: compare drug usage rates in the Netherlands (which has legalized cannabis) to drug use in the United States and France (both of which have very strict drug laws and penalties). You will find that the Netherlands has both fewer cannabis smokers and fewer hard drug users than either the US or France. This is because drug use isn't related to availability, but rather to social and economic issues such as poverty and cultural norms. Also, drug legalization may boost the economies of third world countries such as those in South America, Southeast Asia and the Middle East, where opium poppy and coca cultivation may put these regions on the map economically.

[Amorphos]

life is supposed to be dangerous. we will never arrive at eden as that is just a metaphor of our intent to better ourselves continuously [yes forever].

meditation changes the brain chemistry, i wouldn’t be surprised if many everyday things do to [by which the brain is how it is ‘normally’].

only causes black market and wars because it is illegal.

make it legal and people still die or go insane, become lethargic, etc.

perhaps make it all legal but controlled?

[gambit]

perhaps make it all legal but controlled?

That would be hard. You mean controlled like perscribed medicines? taxed? Because that is still dangerous.

Illegal trade of legal stuff exists. Tobacco and prescribed medicines mostly. Not NEARLY as bad as the drug trade we know about, but if the big dealers are basically put out of business if drugs are made illegal, don't expect they'd just drop all those profits without another try at something else. They'd definitely take up this illegal trade of legal items.

Too me the most hopeful and crimefree plan would be complete legalization, but high amounts of education in school. Get it in their heads early that drugs aren't for everyone and you need to know they can seriously mess up your life.

Of course that probably wont stop people from being addicts either but it'll keep most of the dealers out of their trade.

[Amorphos]

That would be hard. You mean controlled like prescribed medicines? taxed? Because that is still dangerous.

yes that is what i meant. good point about dealers, they cannot get it to the public as cheap though, as the product has to change hands more on the black market. unless they take bigger risks themselves and go get it, but no main dealers do that, they nearly always get others to take the chances.
perhaps an amnesty and offer them jobs as sellers ~ hmm problematic to say the least.

complete legalisation could work and young people can get it if they want to anyway, & it would take away the naughty/cool factor.

it would be good source of revenue for the taxman, cut out probably the largest section of crime and create loads of jobs.

[Maverick]

In short I don't recognize the right of any state to dictate to me what I can and cannot consume. Even the politicians who put forward the very first anti-drug laws didn't think they should apply to everyone, only to second class citizens like the Chinese in their opium dens seducing white women. And it wasn't drugs that were illegal (that would be unconstitutional) it was the transaction that was illegal, hence the involvement of the Treasury department until Nixon decided why go around the consitution when you can go right through it and officially declared a "war on drugs", this time because the administration was afraid the boys coming home from Nam would continue to use opiates and forget about their duty to Uncle Sam, as if they hadn't given enough already to a thoroughly corrupt government.

The whole idea that natural substances can be "drugs" is evil and brilliant. The big lie of the war on drugs is that marijuana and opium and payote etc. from prehistory up until the last century were revered for their medicinal properties, opium was nick-named GOM, God's own medicine by those who fought in the civil war. Today we have anaesthetics and such but just try and imagine a world without modern medicine and put yourself in the position of someone who is about to go under the knife or someone who is beyond all help or even in the next bed beside a hurt comrade. With the use of opium you could endure that surgical procedure or pass away in a euphoric state or get some sleep since your comrade is not up all night screaming in agony. The alternatives were not so good, hence God's own medicine.

The final insult is that real drugs like alcohol and tobacco are legal, so how could anyone take the government's anti-drug stand seriously?

[Zuwxiv]

I have a strict "Do what you want, I don't care" policy on things that don't directly harm me.

At the very least legalize marijuana, but dear god, tax it.

[neoptolemos]

I had saw a book once,it is called:
"Plato not Prozak"

It is very optimistic on behalf of the author,but using the teachings of philosophy is suppose to be beneficial to human psychology

[Kiljaden]

Some history, I've done all the drugs I will mention. I was a stoner for 5 years, did shrooms more times than I can count, and I tried each of these hard drugs a few times before I realized it wasn't worth getting addicted. I have not done any drug at all besides alcohol for over 2 years.

I categorize drugs between natural and non-natural:

If marijuana was legal I would be stoned right now, and pretty much every time I was relaxing at home (not when at work or school obviously).
If shrooms were legal, I would do them occasionally when camping in nature.
If opium was legal, I would use it as a pain reliever.

If LSD, Coke, Meth, Heroin, or any other non-natural illicit drug was legal, I would never do them, and hope that any friend of mine that does them would seek drug treatment immediately.

[Maverick]

If marijuana was legal I would be stoned right now, and pretty much every time I was relaxing at home (not when at work or school obviously).
If shrooms were legal, I would do them occasionally when camping in nature.
If opium was legal, I would use it as a pain reliever.

Never heard that before, you don't smoke because it is illegal. I guess it depends where you live, it's laughable that alcohol is legal and weed isn't but at least the penalties here in Canada aren't very severe.

[Ahlerich]

well i occasionally drink alcohol. i rarely ge drunk anymore(age 31)
after periods in my live were i smoked lots of weed and periods where i did not smoke weed at all i am now at a state of smoking it sometimes, roughly 1 or 2 times a week.
in autumn when the mushrooms grow again i will have them once or twice at the weeked tops (for that year)
humans throughout history always liked to get high the one way or the other - i dont think it is the worst that happen since the cradle of mankind.
the simple bottomline is do or dont do drugs but if u do it do it carefully and make sure to not exagerate it.
this opinion i have is about all natural drugs.
chemical stuff i condemn - had a phase when i tried it and am happy that i amde it out without major damage. i do not reccomend it though.

[Chaigidel]

one theory for why human beings developed such a complex array of neurotransmitters is because of our predation coupled with consumption of exotic chemicals.

[Hound_Of_Culann]

I really don't see how "natural" drugs are supposedly any different from "chemical" drugs. All drugs are chemical! Even nature is made up of chemical elements. Where do people get the idea that manmade = bad and nature = good? There are alot of naturally occurring plants and drugs that can kill you if ingested. Besides, raw chemicals can be finely measured increasing the margin of safety while in plants the amount of active chemicals present tends to vary.

[Maverick]

I really don't see how "natural" drugs are supposedly any different from "chemical" drugs. All drugs are chemical! Even nature is made up of chemical elements. Where do people get the idea that manmade = bad and nature = good? There are alot of naturally occurring plants and drugs that can kill you if ingested. Besides, raw chemicals can be finely measured increasing the margin of safety while in plants the amount of active chemicals present tends to vary.

Natural substances aren't necessarily good but we have a good idea of their effects as they've been used for thousands of years. There is always a danger with the new drugs because they can possibly have negative effects that we aren't aware of. For example in the early days of Heroin it was used by doctors to cure people of Morphine addiction, they didn't know at the time that Heroin is even more addictive and dangerous.

[Hound_Of_Culann]

Natural substances aren't necessarily good but we have a good idea of their effects as they've been used for thousands of years. There is always a danger with the new drugs because they can possibly have negative effects that we aren't aware of. For example in the early days of Heroin it was used by doctors to cure people of Morphine addiction, they didn't know at the time that Heroin is even more addictive and dangerous.

That is 100% true. Though it is still better to isolate the active chemicals from the actual plant (psilocin/psilocybin from mushrooms, morphine from opium, mescaline from peyote etc..) in order to correctly gauge the dosage. I think the "natural vs. chemical" debate is just a misnomer, what it should be called is "well studied drugs vs. newly discovered drugs". Besides, under this anti-drug climate it's pretty much impossible to actually legally study the effects and dangers of drugs.

The only thing the government will allow is junk research that is completely biased in order to justify their standpoint. During the early days of ecstasy the official government stance was that LSD works by "causing blood from your brain to drip down your spine", and that ecstasy "burns holes in your brain". While these drugs do have their dangers (risk of worsening a mental condition, persisting perception disorder and depression), they're nowhere near as frequent and rampant as the government claimed.

The funny thing is, every inane lie the US funded drug research was spewing out, pretty much all of it got recycled and used by the Belgian government (where I live). Belgium actually seems to lag behind on the US, as recently a bunch of cannabis growers were convicted (it aired on the news) to a harsh sentence based on theories that were already discredited in the US! The judge's ruling was that "cannabis is a serious drug as evidenced by the fact that over 95% of all hard drug users originally started out with cannabis as their first drug". I couldn't believe my ears!

[Chaigidel]

exactly Hound--- Methamphetamine are molecular duplicates of the Adrenaline molecule found in your own body

Ergotimine the active alkalide in Ergo fungus from the rye seed is the source of the LSD chemical construct

Cocaine is merely refined coca leaf
Heroine, morphine etc all opium

in fact there are very few if any chemicals at all on this earth that we did not learn about from nature.

[gambit]

I think marijuana being illegal is laughable really. Not once have I heard "...and the man driving the car was suffereing massive hallucinations while driving, and he caused a crash." Actually, I've driven while stoned. You tend to get more paranoid and overly careful. I drove as if my life hanged upon it. OK, I exaggerated a little, but you get the point.

I've never heard of anyone ODing of it either, but I suppose thats possible. That shouldn't be placed against the drug though. Hell, if I surround myself in water I can drown. That's my fault for being a fool, not waters.

[Kiljaden]

I've never heard of anyone ODing on [marijuana] either, but I suppose thats possible.

No human has ever overdosed on marijuana.

Now some people are more sensitive to the psychotropic effects and mildly hallucinate, which has allegedly lead to some car-related deaths. But we're talking a few dozen in the history of the world