the 10 playable factions?....

[Markas]

Portugal will be in the game, of course, but not the starting factions simply because spain will be representing the Iberian colonising power.

[jackwei]

Austria will indeed be a major power especially fighting France, the ottomans and Spain after all they were very powerful during this time and one of the dominate Great Powers of the 18th century after fall of Louis XIV's French Hegomeny.

Prussia will be indeed a rising and i am sure will have a very good infantry and will be able to hold off any comers, although if Russia attacks with huge armies then it take something special to stop them.

I can't wait to form coalitions against Russia or France if they become too powerful and bring balance of power to Europe.


1. Great Britain

2. France

3. Spain

4. Austria

5. Prussia

6. Sweden

7. Russia

8. Polish Commonwealth

9. The Netherlands

10. Ottoman Empire

They all have box arts except not including the United States. I am sure Sweden will have its own box art eventually most probably and i am quite surprised Austria doesn't have its own box art too.

[Rhaegar1]

naaah denmark is defenatly not instantly playable sweden is enough playable scandanavian power.
also venice won't be instantly playable their primetime is long over and Prussia was way more powerfull (and allready confirmed as well)

if you replace venice with Prussia, Portugal with the Mughals(also confirmed) and denmark with the united states then it would be ok

[jackwei]

Prussia will be definetly playable at the start for sure thats why they're on the box art for Germany. There is no reason why Prussia won't be playable at start

[The Noble Lord]

Prussia will be definetly playable at the start for sure thats why they're on the box art for Germany. There is no reason why Prussia won't be playable at start

Of course that Prussia is playable from the start, it's the 1700s and you cannot start without Prussia.

[6b12ga]

Venice is officially a non-playable faction in empire: total war (the article on wikipedia is very old and very incorrect). official as playable:
1. great britain (faction feature, own box-art, seen as playable on screenshots)
2. france (faction feature, own box-art, seen as playable on screenshots)
3. sweden (faction feature)
4. ottoman empire (faction feature)
5. poland-lithuania (own box-art, seen as playable on screenshots)
6. russian empire (own box-art)
7. netherlands (own box-art, seen as playable on screenshots)
8. prussia (own box-art, seen as playable on screenshots)
9. austria (seen as playable on screenshots)
10. spain (own box-art, seen as playable on screenshots)

and my guess:
11. portugal
12. mughal empire

i hope sweden will have an own box-art too

[Boicote]

I'm sorry but you guys point out that portugal was active during a small war with one other nation involved over some islands (not even on the map)

When I said that I was completing an information given by numerusdecimus.
And it wasn’t all about an island. The Spanish-Portuguese war from the 18th Century was about the territory that in modern days corresponds to Uruguay and South Brazil (Santa Catarina, Rio Grande de São Pedro, Colonia do Sacramento, Banda Oriental, Missões Orientais). And this war also involved France (allied with Spain) and Great Britain (allied with Portugal). But unfortunately ETW is anglocentric and South America is not included.

and you give as example that they where involved in the war of spanish succession. I won't deny that's the case but their contribution to that war was far less then the contribution of france, brittain, spain, austria and the netherlands was. Both in number of soldiers and in amount of cash they committed.

And I agree that France, Britain, Spain, Austria and the Netherlands should be playable. I never said that CA should replace any of this faction by Portugal. In my humble opinion, the 13 colonies should not be playable in the main campaign (at least in the beginning) and, instead of them, Portugal should be chosen.

So that leaves the netherlands, and I can only think of arguments for the dutch as being playable.

- More international influence in the time period, (...) in wealth

That’s questionable. In the 17th century gold was discovered in Brazil.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=124141&page=3

Read the post #45

- There is a special dutch game cover so appearently the dutch market is far more interesting($$) then the portugese.

There’s no Swedish game cover, and Sweden is going to be playable.

- CA has stated nothing, nothing at all in no single interview, screenshot video or whatsoever about portugal. The only thing I've seen about portugal is a screenshot of the indian campaignmap with a portugese flag flying above goa

I never read anything official about Russia (not even a screenshot), and I’m sure that Russia is going to be playable. And until 2 weeks ago, there wasn’t anything official that could indicate Sweden as playable.

[Xerrop]

if you replace venice with Prussia, Portugal with the Mughals(also confirmed) and denmark with the united states then it would be ok

Some guys wrote, that the US won´t be playable in the great campaign (starting in 1700 !!) - only in a minicampaign.

So there is a good chance that also Venice will be in. (I think they need a Italian faction, to earn enough $$ there)

I think Goa is Portuguese.

Yes, but that seems to be the only colony of them
That´s why I don´t think, that they become playable.

[Ludicus]

Raheger, crusader against the inclusion of Portugal in the 12 factions list, what is your problem?

Answer: Venice. The "problem" has a name...Venice.

Raeghar1 wrote:

But I'd say that if all the Portugal fanboys keep making so much noise...

Lasciate ogni speranza, italian fanboy, by the eighteenth century, Venetians was already seeking profits from the tourist trade, leasing fine palazzi to foreign travellers.

Portugal didn't play a major role in the 1700s, a role, even minor, sure, but nothing world changing

On the contrary. The Atlantic History in the 18th century is a shining example.
Take a book (any book) of history and read it. Portugal was precisely one of the few empires that changed the world. Wars come and go, but the influence of Portugal in the world stays forever.
The Director of the John Carter Brown Library, wrote: " As the progeny of Portuguese expansion continue to develop, such is in the case of Brazil, it also becomes more urgent to understand the nature and impact of Portuguese culture around the world.... In viewing its overseas empires, it has become increasingly apparent how much of these empires interacted with one another, as economic and political rivals in vast maritime settings such as the Atlantic and Indian ocean. Historians now speak regularly of of an " Atlantic History", which necessitates attention to Brazil and Angola and ultimately to the Portuguese empire as a whole...the importance of the Portugese empire in the history of mankind may be measured by the extraordinary number of people in different part of the globe for whom to this day the Portuguese language is their mother language. The Lusophone world stretches from Macao to East Timor, to Goa, to Angola and Mozambique, to the Cape Vert islands and to Azores, and Brazil. Portuguese speakers outnumber nearly all other speakers of European languages - English and Spanish excepted.... the stamp of Portuguese culture upon Goa is indelable, and to this day remains a unique enclave on the Indian subcontinent...If one is to arrive at a sound knowledge of this process of globalization, the Portuguese case must be closely considered, along with the Spanish, Dutch, and English territorial and maritime expansion"

A little more about the " nothing world changing" :

Felipe Ferndez Armesto, Principe de Asturias Chair in Spanish Culture at Tufts University wrote: " ...Finally, in the most global context, Portuguese expansion helped to carry the “seeds of change” that transformed so many environments and reversed the age-old pattern of evolution...If we ask what difference it made to this place or that, the answer will, in most cases outside Portugal, be modest. If we ask how big was its effect on the world, the answer is: huge. Today´s world would be unrecognizable without it"

He also wrote: ..Secondly, Portugal played a vital role - or, for its black and native Brazilians victims a lethal one - in creating the Atalntic networks around wich modern Western civilization took shape: revealing the South Atlantic wind system and liking it with the Indian Ocean; and pioneering transfusions of blood and culture across the ocean. The Portuguese example taught the potential of the transatlantic slave trade to other Europeans who engaded in it. The Atlantic is, in a sense, a Portuguese sea, with Portuguese-speaking communities dotted around its shores. But the African tints and flavors in much New World atlantic-side culture, especially in Brazil, were transmitted in Portuguese ships....
In any case, historian´s obessions with commercial and monetary matters should be probalby be reined in: They are a mal de siecle of the modern, capitalist, industrialized economic era, with its huge volumes of trade and its preoccupation with cash computations of value. The stuff of world History is not primarly economic but cultural.


The 18th century, Portugal and the economy of Europe:
As Adam Smith recognized, Brazilian gold was an essential element in the growth of Europe and British economy. It helped to lay the basis for the Industrial Revolution.
Quote:
"The monetary and financial history of Europe, especially England’s, was substantially affected by the Portugal’s crucial role in importing and distributing massive amounts of Brazilian gold, which forever altered the bimetallic ratio throughout Europe and played a crucial role for the de facto end of bimetallism in 18th century England.In short, fueled by the huge inflows of specie from Brazil, by the end of the 18th century, gold dominated both in terms of circulation and of emissions. The emissions of silver and copper were of reduced importance.
Before the discovery of Brazilian gold, the recurring depreciations of the real were associated with the insufficiency of fiscal revenues, in the context of high military expenditures, and a low degree of fiscal coverage at a regional level (Macedo, Silva and Sousa 2001). In contrast, from the 18th century and until 1822, monetary stability, namely gold price stability, was the dominant feature. This stability was made possible by the coincidental interests of the State (which had the coinage monopoly) and the most important business groups.
Still, we should emphasize that, in many ways, this monetary stability was not unique to Portugal. Gold became a nominal anchor throughout the 18thcentury, not only in Portugal but also in many European countries such as Britain, France and Holland.
Portugal might have played an important role for this stabilization, mostly through its role in the importation and distribution of the huge inflows of Brazilian gold into the European economy.
Excerpts:
"The Fall,the Rise and the Persistence of bimetallism in Portugal 1435-1854"
A.S. Pereira Department of Economics University of York.

And finallly, Russel-Wood, Professor of History at John Hopkins University:

" The Portuguese seaborne empire has also been the victim of overzealous attempts at periodization. To link historical periodization to landfalls or military exploits is to miss the quinteessence of the Portuguese overseas experience: namely, that many developments ocurred concunrrently in different geographical theaters. Placing undue emphasis on the fifteenth or the sixteenth centuries and linking this approach to what might be termed the "contact" period or what for Europeans were "discoveries" tends to obscure the fact that, for the Portuguese, the contact period extended over several centuries. The achievements, failures, and successes of the Portuguese must be viewed over the longue dureé. Discrete events and single encounters must be contextualized not only within the immediate period in which they occured but also within a broader chronology. This fragmentation, be it by geography or by chronology, undermines the universal nature of the Portuguese achievement"

[Martok]

We're getting a bit off-topic here.



Thus far, I have a very strong hunch the list of playable factions is going to look something like this:


Confirmed as playable:
Britain
France
Ottoman Empire
Sweden
United States

Not yet technically confirmed as playable, but it's been strongly indicated that they will be:
Dutch
Mughal Empire
Poland-Lithuania

Nothing official from CA, but are generally assumed will be playable:
Austria
Prussia/Brandenberg
Russia
Spain

Questionable:
Portugal



For Portugal, probably the key question is whether or not the U.S. is considered by CA as one of the twelve playable factions: If it is, it's doubtful Portugal is playable. If the 13 Colonies are *not* considered to be one of the twelve, however, then Portugal is probably in.

I am, of course, rooting for Portugal.

[jackwei]

We're getting a bit off-topic here.



Thus far, I have a very strong hunch the list of playable factions is going to look something like this:


Confirmed as playable:
Britain
France
Ottoman Empire
Sweden
United States

Not yet technically confirmed as playable, but it's been strongly indicated that they will be:
Dutch
Mughal Empire
Poland-Lithuania

Nothing official from CA, but are generally assumed will be playable:
Austria
Prussia/Brandenberg
Russia
Spain

Questionable:
Portugal



For Portugal, probably the key question is whether or not the U.S. is considered by CA as one of the twelve playable factions: If it is, it's doubtful Portugal is playable. If the 13 Colonies are *not* considered to be one of the twelve, however, then Portugal is probably in.

I am, of course, rooting for Portugal.

Isn't the United States susposed to be an emerging faction in the grand campaign, but playable if your faction ignites the revolution??

The same thing happens when France goes Revolutionary too i guess

[Martok]

Isn't the United States susposed to be an emerging faction in the grand campaign, but playable if your faction ignites the revolution??

Well that's why I'm not sure if the U.S. counts as one of "The Twelve" or not.

In other words, are there twelve playable factions plus the United States? Or are there *eleven* playable factions plus the U.S.? That's what we really need to know the answer to.

[aarons got funky fresh]

A

On the contrary. The Atlantic History in the 18th century is a shining example.
Take a book (any book) of history and read it. Portugal was precisely one of the few empires that changed the world. Wars come and go, but the influence of Portugal in the world stays forever.
The Director of the John Carter Brown Library, wrote: " As the progeny of Portuguese expansion continue to develop, such is in the case of Brazil, it also becomes more urgent to understand the nature and impact of Portuguese culture around the world.... In viewing its overseas empires, it has become increasingly apparent how much of these empires interacted with one another, as economic and political rivals in vast maritime settings such as the Atlantic and Indian ocean. Historians now speak regularly of of an " Atlantic History", which necessitates attention to Brazil and Angola and ultimately to the Portuguese empire as a whole...the importance of the Portugese empire in the history of mankind may be measured by the extraordinary number of people in different part of the globe for whom to this day the Portuguese language is their mother language. The Lusophone world stretches from Macao to East Timor, to Goa, to Angola and Mozambique, to the Cape Vert islands and to Azores, and Brazil. Portuguese speakers outnumber nearly all other speakers of European languages - English and Spanish excepted.... the stamp of Portuguese culture upon Goa is indelable, and to this day remains a unique enclave on the Indian subcontinent...If one is to arrive at a sound knowledge of this process of globalization, the Portuguese case must be closely considered, along with the Spanish, Dutch, and English territorial and maritime expansion"

A little more about the " nothing world changing" :

Felipe Ferndez Armesto, Principe de Asturias Chair in Spanish Culture at Tufts University wrote: " ...Finally, in the most global context, Portuguese expansion helped to carry the “seeds of change” that transformed so many environments and reversed the age-old pattern of evolution...If we ask what difference it made to this place or that, the answer will, in most cases outside Portugal, be modest. If we ask how big was its effect on the world, the answer is: huge. Today´s world would be unrecognizable without it"

He also wrote: ..Secondly, Portugal played a vital role - or, for its black and native Brazilians victims a lethal one - in creating the Atalntic networks around wich modern Western civilization took shape: revealing the South Atlantic wind system and liking it with the Indian Ocean; and pioneering transfusions of blood and culture across the ocean. The Portuguese example taught the potential of the transatlantic slave trade to other Europeans who engaded in it. The Atlantic is, in a sense, a Portuguese sea, with Portuguese-speaking communities dotted around its shores. But the African tints and flavors in much New World atlantic-side culture, especially in Brazil, were transmitted in Portuguese ships....
In any case, historian´s obessions with commercial and monetary matters should be probalby be reined in: They are a mal de siecle of the modern, capitalist, industrialized economic era, with its huge volumes of trade and its preoccupation with cash computations of value. The stuff of world History is not primarly economic but cultural.


The 18th century, Portugal and the economy of Europe:
As Adam Smith recognized, Brazilian gold was an essential element in the growth of Europe and British economy. It helped to lay the basis for the Industrial Revolution.
Quote:
"The monetary and financial history of Europe, especially England’s, was substantially affected by the Portugal’s crucial role in importing and distributing massive amounts of Brazilian gold, which forever altered the bimetallic ratio throughout Europe and played a crucial role for the de facto end of bimetallism in 18th century England.In short, fueled by the huge inflows of specie from Brazil, by the end of the 18th century, gold dominated both in terms of circulation and of emissions. The emissions of silver and copper were of reduced importance.
Before the discovery of Brazilian gold, the recurring depreciations of the real were associated with the insufficiency of fiscal revenues, in the context of high military expenditures, and a low degree of fiscal coverage at a regional level (Macedo, Silva and Sousa 2001). In contrast, from the 18th century and until 1822, monetary stability, namely gold price stability, was the dominant feature. This stability was made possible by the coincidental interests of the State (which had the coinage monopoly) and the most important business groups.
Still, we should emphasize that, in many ways, this monetary stability was not unique to Portugal. Gold became a nominal anchor throughout the 18thcentury, not only in Portugal but also in many European countries such as Britain, France and Holland.
Portugal might have played an important role for this stabilization, mostly through its role in the importation and distribution of the huge inflows of Brazilian gold into the European economy.
Excerpts:
"The Fall,the Rise and the Persistence of bimetallism in Portugal 1435-1854"
A.S. Pereira Department of Economics University of York.

And finallly, Russel-Wood, Professor of History at John Hopkins University:

" The Portuguese seaborne empire has also been the victim of overzealous attempts at periodization. To link historical periodization to landfalls or military exploits is to miss the quinteessence of the Portuguese overseas experience: namely, that many developments ocurred concunrrently in different geographical theaters. Placing undue emphasis on the fifteenth or the sixteenth centuries and linking this approach to what might be termed the "contact" period or what for Europeans were "discoveries" tends to obscure the fact that, for the Portuguese, the contact period extended over several centuries. The achievements, failures, and successes of the Portuguese must be viewed over the longue dureé. Discrete events and single encounters must be contextualized not only within the immediate period in which they occured but also within a broader chronology. This fragmentation, be it by geography or by chronology, undermines the universal nature of the Portuguese achievement"

I understand they have had an overall effect on today and a century or so before the 18th century, but from 1700-1800 did they really do something so significant?

I'm not knowledgeable on Portugal so excuse me if I'm wrong.

[Ludicus]

I understand they have had an overall effect on today and a century or so before the 18th century, but from 1700-1800 did they really do something so significant?

I'm not knowledgeable on Portugal so excuse me if I'm wrong.

Well, what does significant mean?
Please read the entire post... .. and draw you own conclusions.

[darkly]

I understand they have had an overall effect on today and a century or so before the 18th century, but from 1700-1800 did they really do something so significant?

I'm not knowledgeable on Portugal so excuse me if I'm wrong.

Try to learn a bit about portuguese history, mainly about the 18 century.
Then you will see why Portugal should be in the game.

[aarons got funky fresh]

There's no grudges against your country, especially not because of Maddie. But lets be real here.

There is already a dominant Iberian faction; Spain
Portugal's colonies are out
Portugal didn't play a major role in the 1700s, a role, even minor, sure, but nothing world changing

It must suck not to have your country in, but who cares anyways, all you have to do is change a little tiny line of text in a folder somewhere and presto you can play as them!

[Rhaegar1]

yeah well I'm dutch but I'll just take it as a compliment for my english spelling.

And to bad you think I'm a crusader against portugal or something like that but I was bored at school so it thought I listed the reasons why I don't think portugal is in.


@ Boicote

I agree with you that the only faction Portugal can replace should be the 13 colonies, however I don't think it will happen.

To bad I'm misunderstanded in the discussion so I will repeat myself once again, I don't wan't Portugal out of the playable list I simply don't think they will be in. I have nothing againgst portugal, never met a portugese person never been close to portugal at all if it was up to me we would also have a playable persia, crimean khanate, venice and zimbabwe I'm just having a discussion about what I think likely just like everybody else is having.

[cux47]

I really don't think that the Mughal Empire would be playable
the starting 12 should all stick together

[The Noble Lord]

Nothing official from CA, but are generally assumed will be playable:
Austria
Prussia/Brandenberg
Russia
Spain

I am positive that Austria, Prussia, and Russia are playable. According to all the info and hints that have been gathered by the forum in the past six months or so. These nations are definitely in!!!

[RussianGael3]

Boys, i have good news. Most of you know about the Jacobite Rebellions of '15 and the '45? well if you piss off the scots, they'll repeat our own history, and if you want to side with them. Of course this also works for ireland and parts of the mainland!