Was man created?

[McGness]

Speaking with Miraj this question came into my head. I think man was created.

[Richard]

I too think man was created. Gylfaginning tells us that one day, Odin and his brothers Vili and Ve were walking along a beach when they spied an ash and an elm tree. "Those look nice" they said, and so they took the wood from the two trees and into it Odin breathed life, Vili intelligence, and Ve hearing, speech and sight. And so, the wood from these two trees became the first man and woman to walk upon Midgard.

[McGness]

I believe what they actually said was, "This is taking too long, I need a mead, lets grab what's closest." Then there was a big bang and the universe began its journey.


Consider this post itself might only be designed to give a slight impression of umbrage in anticipation of -

Did you think you were being clever? Did you consider my first post was clever, or did you speak from one of the two blinded perceptions on the issue?

Latter.

[Miraj]

I don't get the question. Is this an evolution vs creationism topic?

[Kiljaden]

Creation is an abstract thought. Things are only made. Creation implies poofing out of nowhere, making is essentially assembling of parts and\or applying energy.

Cooked beans and rice are MADE, whereas a meal (an abstract idea) is CREATED.

Pretending that God exists, even "He" MADE Adam from dirt, and he MADE Eve from Adam's rib.

Man was never created, only the idea of what a man is was created - by man.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Man was not created, man was slowly perfected by evolutionary means over millions of years.

[Cúchulainn]

Man was not created, man was slowly perfected by evolutionary means over millions of years.

I wouldn't say, perfected.

We have poorer eyesight than Birds, poorer scene of smell that Dogs, poorer hearing that Bats and lower muscle density than our hominid cousins, Apes.

All we have over them is the ability to think, rationalize and invent, which some people seem to ignore.

Dismissing our development as fiction and believes in such events as delusional.

All the while they give praise to a megalomaniacal, misogynistic, genocidal and vindictive deity.

Hmm? I wonder who is really delusional.

[Pontifex Maximus]

I wouldn't say, perfected.

Why? We are the dominant species.

Plus it doesn't really matter because our superior intelects enable us to develop things like glasses, binoculars, cars, planes, et cetera.

All we have over them is the ability to think, rationalize and invent, which some people seem to ignore.

That's where natural selection comes in.

[Miraj]

I wouldn't say, perfected.

We have poorer eyesight than Birds, poorer scene of smell that Dogs, poorer hearing that Bats and lower muscle density than our hominid cousins, Apes.

All we have over them is the ability to think, rationalize and invent, which some people seem to ignore.

Dismissing our development as fiction and believes in such events as delusional.

All the while they give praise to a megalomaniacal, misogynistic, genocidal and vindictive deity.

Hmm? I wonder who is really delusional.

I once sighted a worm from over a 100m away and ran right in and grabbed the little er with my nose. So keep your racialist anti-human rhetoric to yourself, son!!

[McGness]

I once sighted a worm from over a 100m away and ran right in and grabbed the little er with my nose.

How do you grab with your nose? Some trick of inhalation?

[whhyy]

There is a problem with the idea that man was created. How does the first human sustain themselves if they had noone to teach them anything?

[Pontifex Maximus]

Trial and error. Man learned how to think and fend for itself.

[gambit]

Evolution. It made us harder, better, faster, stronger.

[Astaroth]

I wouldn't say, perfected.

We have poorer eyesight than Birds, poorer scene of smell that Dogs, poorer hearing that Bats and lower muscle density than our hominid cousins, Apes.

Do we need an eyesight like a bird or a nose like a dog? Hardly. A bird NEEDS such an eyesight. We do not need it at all to survive. I mean yeah uh cool and all to have even better eyes but what's the point? There is no "big picture" in which "nature" tries to make everything all-round pefect. Nope, everything including us humans just adapts to what it does/needs to do/how it can survive etc.

"Perfect" is a relative term. For what we do and for what our life consists of we were pretty much perfected over the millenia - and the advance will most likely continue.

[TaysChreNN]

I wouldn't say perfect either, rather: we are ideal for our environment. This planet. Obviously we'd be a weak product of evolution on a gas giant, for example.

[Tankbuster]

We aren't perfect at all. And that's not so surprising, since in evolution, you don't have to evolve to being perfect. You don't need a perfect eye or a leg, you just need something that does the job.
So that's what humans are: a composition of all completely imperfect limbs and senses, who together, do a reasonable job.
Now, these senses of course enable us to do some pretty amazing things at times, like inventing intelligent stuff; but most of the time we're just screwing around.
We're really all professional screw-arounds.

Look at the human eye for example. It's completely screwed up! It's up-side-down and backwards. And it's built way too complicated.
Our knees and back are way too weak to last decently for an entire human life.
Look at many other parts of the body, who are not only built way too complicated (sometimes even unnecessary), but also places that get diseases and infections all the time.

We are by no means a perfect being. We are, at best, a decent job. But as I said, we aren't required to be perfect for natural selection. We just have to work, and we do, obviously.

This is also why the idea that man was created is so unrealistic; there are so many unnecessary and stupid designs in our body, who clearly show the marks of where we come from; the marks of our ancestors. This is by no means a well designed body; it's a composition of components that is meant to perform reasonably well.

[sirfiggin]

We aren't perfect at all. And that's not so surprising, since in evolution, you don't have to evolve to being perfect. You don't need a perfect eye or a leg, you just need something that does the job.
So that's what humans are: a composition of all completely imperfect limbs and senses, who together, do a reasonable job.
Now, these senses of course enable us to do some pretty amazing things at times, like inventing intelligent stuff; but most of the time we're just screwing around.
We're really all professional screw-arounds.

Look at the human eye for example. It's completely screwed up! It's up-side-down and backwards. And it's built way too complicated.
Our knees and back are way too weak to last decently for an entire human life.
Look at many other parts of the body, who are not only built way too complicated (sometimes even unnecessary), but also places that get diseases and infections all the time.

We are by no means a perfect being. We are, at best, a decent job. But as I said, we aren't required to be perfect for natural selection. We just have to work, and we do, obviously.

This is also why the idea that man was created is so unrealistic; there are so many unnecessary and stupid designs in our body, who clearly show the marks of where we come from; the marks of our ancestors. This is by no means a well designed body; it's a composition of components that is meant to perform reasonably well.

Like every other species on the planet, we are subject to natural selection, which is meant to trim away weaker specimens, but with the advent of modern medicine and the older problem of a bottlenecked gene-pool, individuals who in the wild would die survive and breed, so deficiencies in the species grow with each generation.

[gambit]

If we were perfect we wouldn't have sickness or arthritis. I do think however, we are closest to perfection on our planet in an all-round sort of way, especially with our supreme advantage of technology.

I don't see any reason to think we were created, as in poof all of a sudden we were there. If something like God was to create us, why WOULDN'T he make us perfect? Why would he make us with so many faults and weaknesses?

After all, he's supposedly been around since the beginning of time, he couldn't take the extra few blinks of an eye to make us better?

[Tankbuster]

I agree with the rest of your post, but...

If we were perfect we wouldn't have sickness or arthritis. I do think however, we are closest to perfection on our planet in an all-round sort of way, especially with our supreme advantage of technology.

Not even close!
Seen from an evolutionary point of view, cockroaches are way more perfect. They can survive nearly anything, have been around for 500 million years, and will be around 'till the Earth goes down. That's as close to a perfect darwinist survivor as you can get.
There are a lot of more adapted species on our planet, but we are able to survive because we have a few smart guys in our species, who do the intelligent work for the rest of us.

[gambit]

I agree with the rest of your post, but...



Not even close!
Seen from an evolutionary point of view, cockroaches are way more perfect. They can survive nearly anything, have been around for 500 million years, and will be around 'till the Earth goes down. That's as close to a perfect darwinist survivor as you can get.

That sets them above in terms of sheer survival but I think humans are above them. For instance, our newly born babies are gigantic to them. The biggest roach is a mere 6 in long. The biggest human is/was (dunno if he's alive) 8 ft 11 in. We have hands and feet with digits. Hell we can pick them up and throw them around like they're nothing. They are pests to us. Sure they could survive a nuclear explosion but if humans decided to turn on cockroaches (for some reason) and bring them to extinction, I don't think they'd have a very good chance.

But yes, I agree. To an evolutionary survival degree and if you compare a naked human (no clothes, no technology, no anything) to a cockroach they last longer.

There are a lot of more adapted species on our planet, but we are able to survive because we have a few smart guys in our species, who do the intelligent work for the rest of us.

Yes we are a lazy race but we are still that great. We have so much undying potential as humans. We've got men that can lift cars and pull semis. We've got men who can explain the string theory and all the laws of physics. We've got men who know how to fly planes. In fact, I think we're bounds ahead of everything other animal in terms of surviveability. Since we cannot fly, we have learned how to manipulate materials and energies to cause an object to fly, and how to control it. We are masters of using our environment, proven as we have shaped entire cities. We've carved our faces into mountains.

It would be impossible for one person to achieve all the things we as a race have achieved.