HELP! My Germans can't kill ROmans

[GandhiTheHun]

For some reason, my troops that did so well against Macedonian phalanxes do not stand a chance against Rome. In my campaign they just now declared war on me. The first battle is my full stack vs their full stack. I have lost the battle 2 or 3 times, and i keep re loading a saved game because i wont accept defeat. If i cannot find a way to kill them here...well, my campaign is done, because they are right on my empire's weak front (the strong one is by Macedonia, where i am kicking ass and taking names). But those principes are just too much...the way these battles play out isn't realistic at all, ironically. Why would freighting barbarian hordes that out number an enemy run from them like little pansies when they have hardly lost any troops? It does not make any sense.

My troops have never performed so badly, it makes no sense. My army strength in this battle is 4 to 3 in my favor, and all i can ever manage is total failure. they route my entire army in minutes. its bull .

[decimator22]

use the hammer and anvil tactic or use your bersekers don't really know how to help, mmm post a screenie

[Quinn Inuit]

Can you post a screenshot of your army composition vs. their army composition? The makeup of the stack is more important than the size.

Also, have you tried throwing javelins at them from the rear? That tends to ruin anyone's day.

[GandhiTheHun]

i dont know how to post screen shots. i dont have any berserks available... i have 30 of them.. it sucks. I have a bunch of crappy infantry. I dont know what they are called, all weird german names.. but i have a lot of gallic mercenaries, and heavy/light infantry units. They route for no good reason. The enemy army has a bunch of mercenary skirmishers that it sends to fight my troops and it forces them to waste a lot of javelins, and i lose a lot of people too becaus emy troops suck. the enemy has a lot of princepes or however you spell it.

whats the hammer and anvil tactic?

[AqD]

No use for germans anyway.

Your common troops have very bad morale and almost no armour - they're best target for roman's pila, and their javelins and spears can do little damage on the heavy mail worn by legionaries.

But they're damn cheap - you get what you pay for I can only suggest you to begin recruiting the naked/black swordsmen with large shield, and the berserker.
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[decimator22]

No use for germans anyway.

:hmmm:
Oh thats bad I thought it did well that just shows how much i like Germans

Then just throw gigantic cheap stacks at them over and over again and sack there cities.

[GandhiTheHun]

i cant recruit black swordsmen, and i can only get berserkers at one city, my capital. i don't know how to get them at other places... half my cities dont even have the option to train troops.

they are damn cheap, but im pretty damn poor now that i have to fight romans.

[Quinn Inuit]

You need to build up your troop production buildings--the Auxilia and barracks buildings.

[AqD]

German units are different, they're all restricted to certain regions.

The only units they can recruit everywhere are cavlary, german heros (elite spearmen) and the cheap warband, but none of them have heavy armour..
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[Quinn Inuit]

Oh, good point. I thought he meant in the territories he'd captured, but you're right that a lot of the German units are region-specific.

[Jamey]

I recently finished wiping out Rome as Germany. My recommendation is to bring your best troops and your best general to that front fast. To achieve man to man parity between your infantry and their Principes requires gold chevron troops. Fortunately, you don't need parity, because you have blackshields, berserkers, and elite spears.

The best course is to use your basic infantry to soak up damage. Their 120 men, stiffened by a good general, will hold long enough for you to flank. My casualties in these units are often massive. Fortunately, the Priest of Wodan ancillary is your friend and brings half of your casualties back to life after battle. I guess he has some serious juice, getting those guys sprung from Valhalla or something.

Send your blackshields, elite spears, berserkers, and all cavalry to the flanks and rear of the enemy army. If your archers/slingers are not at or near gold chevron status or if they are but the enemy army is all heavily armored (principes, triarii, lergionairres, etc) replace your archers/slingers with more flaking units. One interesting exception to this would be if you have some Sarmatian merc horse archers. They make a superb distraction, allowing you to split the enemy army. They also run down routers like a champ once things are in the mop up stage.

Finally, be prepared for a tough battle. The Romans have troops which counter all of the Germans strengths (they're flexible, high morale, heavily armored, and throw javelins). Unlike most factions, the Germans don't have any truly elite units (e.g. compare with Thracian Bastarnae or Gallic elite swords/spears) to throw up as a battle line against Rome. They instead rely on numbers and fear inspiring infantry like blackshields, berserkers, and elite spears. That's the challenge of playing as Germany.

On a final note, if you're up against a strong Roman general, you need to take him out immediately. He adds to all key Roman stats, especially morale, while he is alive. Stick a whole lot of javelins and other pointy sticks into the general. Or, if you have good assassins and are feeling lucky, try taking care of the problem on the strategic map.

Best of luck. In my game, I countered Roman aggression with my two full attack armies, one pulled from another front and the other coming back after retraining due to casualties from completing the conquest of Gaul. I knew the day would come when mealy mouthed Roman promises of alliance would turn to ash, so I was well prepared for the betrayal. Never trust a soft 'civilized' man who has running water and paved roads.

Finally, I'll just say that Germany is one of the hardest factions to play. They have no truly elite units like most other factions. They rely on numbers, maneuver, and inspiring fear. If you don't break the enemy line quickly, odds are it will cost you dearly. This is doubly true against factions like Rome, where you will face stacks of very heavy infantry. This should be a challenge. In fact, that challenge is exactly why I enjoy playing Germany.

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These are my two solutions to the Roman problem, after taking Rome (I'm playing ExRM, so there may be some differences apparent from RTR):




I did a cut and paste job to show all of the generals' attributes and ancillaries. Otherlhildis's army was composed of a mix of multiple bronze and single silver chevron troops when the Roman conquest started. Ricburgis's army was starting to accumulate gold chevrons on the infantry and cavalry. The Sarmatian archers were a relatively late add to that army (upgrading Gallic slingers), so they are less experienced.

I'd say that key ingredients to my successful anti-Roman campaign were two superb generals, experienced and well equipped troops, and some very fun battles of maneuver.

In his greatest battle, Othelhildis was able to devastate the Roman skirmishers and slingers using his horse archers. This distracted the Roman general, who sent his cavalry haring off after the horse archers. The Roman cavalry got slowly picked apart by arrows while Othelhildis's main force enveloped and destroyed the Roman army.

Ricburgis trusted his veterans and took a conventional hammer and anvil approach. He was facing the strongest Roman army and met it head on. His elite spears and cavalry (including Ricburgis himself!) swept around the flanks to complete the victory.

After these two major victories, it was largely a matter of mopping up half stacks and besieging cities. For sieges against stone walls, I replaced the archers with mercenary sword infantry. They got the honor of going up the walls, sparing good Germans for the street battles and the post conquest 'party' (some would call it an extermination).

Ricburgis may be the best General I've ever had. He has +10 morale and +20% movement in addition to his command stars. I keep hoping to improve his War Chief status, but points for that appear to come from a 10% chance per heroic victory. I think I'm going to put him onto a weaker army to help generate some more of those.

[GandhiTheHun]

damn jamey..you have a lot of stuff. in my game, i am very poor. i wasn't able to expand into gaul at all because of Macedonia..they attacked me extremely early on. Your troops all have very good stats..mine don't. I can't afford much, honestly. My best general is my faction leader.. he has been kicking ass in macedonia...forever. How do you make black shields? how can i make berserkers at cities other than Damme, my capital? everything is going wrong in my campaign. And how do you get so much of your map visible?

[Jamey]

damn jamey..you have a lot of stuff. in my game, i am very poor. i wasn't able to expand into gaul at all because of Macedonia..they attacked me extremely early on. Your troops all have very good stats..mine don't. I can't afford much, honestly. My best general is my faction leader.. he has been kicking ass in macedonia...forever. How do you make black shields? how can i make berserkers at cities other than Damme, my capital? everything is going wrong in my campaign. And how do you get so much of your map visible?

Have you played much RTR yet? Germany is a challenging faction because it starts with an extremely weak economy. If you're new to RTR, you may want to start with an easier faction (like Rome) to pick up the nuts and bolts of how RTR's economy and AOR work and then try again.

Black shields can only be recruited in certain settlements. I normally capture Viberi first and build it up as a unit production settlement because of the blackshields.

For more general information on the Germans, check out older threads about it. My post in one is here, with more information about the units.

I do well because I keep my garrisons as small as possible. I choose conquest targets which will provide troops that I want and/or economic benefits. I win battles with minimal casualties. It also helps that I've played the game a lot (I started playing in the early days of RTR Gold), which gives me a good feel for key settlements.

The big challenge with Germany early on is to expand quickly with your limited army. That means keeping casualties to a minimum and choosing your targets wisely. Retrain your troops often and get them armor and weapon upgrades when you can.

If you haven't taken Britain, it tends to be challenging but also lucrative (their chariots will slice and dice you until you pin them in place with infantry). Calleva is one of two settlements which you can conquer early on which starts the game near to growing to a Minor City (the other is Alesia, the Gallic capital). Calleva is also a very good naval trade hub for the northern coast of Gaul and Germany.

build AoR at key settlements then provincional barracks, and he is using the cheat toggle fow to see all the map.

I often use the cheat to turn of the fog of war for screenshots. For the screenshots in this thread, the map is from having traded maps with a lot of other people (see the grey area NE of Sarmatia, for example). I try to keep my maps up to date. It does nice things for diplomat skill (which helps for buying settlements and bribing armies). Plus, I may be a little obsessive about having good maps.

[AqD]

When I fight again them, they're just stacks of cannon fodders, um, like chickens
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[decimator22]

build AoR at key settlements then provincional barracks, and he is using the cheat toggle fow to see all the map.

[GandhiTheHun]

i already did start over on a new campaign. I am playing Vh/Vh as Armenia. As Germany, i messed up totally. I don't like germany anymore. That was my first campaign in rome total realism, and my third campaign... ever. I got pretty far as julii in the original, but got sick of it, then i took over the whole map as germania. Having so few campaigning experience might explain my failure. How do i know what buildings to make? Please tell me in what order i should build wat.

[Jamey]

i already did start over on a new campaign. I am playing Vh/Vh as Armenia. As Germany, i messed up totally. I don't like germany anymore. That was my first campaign in rome total realism, and my third campaign... ever. I got pretty far as julii in the original, but got sick of it, then i took over the whole map as germania. Having so few campaigning experience might explain my failure. How do i know what buildings to make? Please tell me in what order i should build wat.

In general, ports and mines are your biggest money making buildings. Ports tend to be bigger in the long run (they scale with population and various buildings), but mines are a flat fee for a flat income. I tend to build mines and ports based on which increases income the most when it gets built. Check out the settlement details page - grayed out icons get added. Mouse over the grayed out and the non-grayed out information to get the before and after income changes.

Roads let your troops move faster and make you some money. Markets give you a small trade increase (which is multiplied by the total trade you're doing, so they're best in higher trade settlements). Don't neglect markets, however, as they are required for many buildings including smithies, public health buildings, and settlement growth upgrades.

Your barracks let you build infantry. Stables let you build cavalry, and ranges let you build ranged units. Unit production from stables and ranges requires a certain level of barracks. You can view the unit types which will be available in each settlement by looking at future buildings in the building browser.

I'd recommend that you read the forums for more details on the AOR (Area Of Recruitment) system. Basically it means that you will be able to recruit certain types of local troops as well as your faction specific troops. Beyond that, I'm sure someone has a better description of this all in some thread around the forums. Hopefully someone else can point you to it.

Just a bit of advice, you might want to try a faction which starts in a more 'civilized' area and set the game to an easier difficulty to learn how the game works. I'd say that Rome and Macedon are the best choices, as they start relatively small and reasonable contiguous, are in high income areas, and have very strong troops.

[mcantu]

i already did start over on a new campaign. I am playing Vh/Vh as Armenia. As Germany, i messed up totally. I don't like germany anymore. That was my first campaign in rome total realism, and my third campaign... ever. I got pretty far as julii in the original, but got sick of it, then i took over the whole map as germania. Having so few campaigning experience might explain my failure. How do i know what buildings to make? Please tell me in what order i should build wat.

well there's your problem right there...never have battles set to anything above medium if you want properly balanced battles

[GandhiTheHun]

I don't want to be Rome or Macedon, those are the worthless rich swine.

[HouseOfHam]

Since you have forces in Macedon, I'd send them to raid Rome and Capua instead. That would cripple the Roman's troop-producing ability for a long time. Then, defeating them would only be a question of time. Heck, they might even abandon their own invasion if you threaten their homeland.