What is wrong with Demographic change?

[Shadowcry]

In the news and practically everywhere else we can see a discussion of immigration, demographic change and so forth. But what I am curious is since Europe and every other continent on the globe has changed in the past 500 years demographically what is wrong with future upcoming change?

At the turn of the last century it was mostly Europeans who had a huge population boom and with a flood of settlers and colonizers changed continents and cultures. Clothing for example throughout the world has been predominately westernized in the last 150 years. So this brings up the question what is wrong with cultural/ demographic or religious change?

[Aru]

Only that people are afraid of it. Unfortunately or perhaps luckly we can't know how things will develop tomorrow so we base our predictions on recent past, but who can say that things won't gent a sharp turn? That,m for instance, European native population won't start raising again? All in all it's the politicians that profit of that fear of the future, and it's them that encourage it also.

[That Damn Robot!]

Nothing is necessarily wrong with demographic change; in the city closest to where I live he fastest growing demographic is highly qualified professionals.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Tell me why would I want demographic change?

[wannaleadguitar?]

whats demoghraghic whatever??????????

[ComnenusTheOne]

Yeah thats good, why dont we all just open our arms and embrace every single immigrant that looks for a better future because he was weak enough to allow his country become a fundamentalist religious driven nest of barbarians.

[wannaleadguitar?]

WHAT IS DEMOWHATEVER CHANGE!!!!

[Steel of Fury]

I'm sure Liberal Romans were asking the same question around 400 A.D.

[Pickle_mole]

What is the benifit to the host society? Instead of relying on outside help from immigrants why not fix youre problems instead of allowing them to continue?

[Scar Face]

In this particular case Demographic change means the removal of your ethnicity/race/nationality and reducing it to a second rate power, your culture being tainted by the influence of others, and the marginalization of what your ancestors have created. Whats wrong with Demographic change? A whole lot.

[Adrian Laguna]

In this particular case Demographic change means the removal of your ethnicity/race/nationality and reducing it to a second rate power, your culture being tainted by the influence of others, and the marginalization of what your ancestors have created. Whats wrong with Demographic change? A whole lot.

Only if the newcomers are not assimilating into the culture of their new homeland. If they are, then there is no problem, and I can back this up with historical evidence. When the United States was funded, it was mostly composed of Englishmen. By the end of the Victorian age, about half the population had German ancestry. When you add to that all the Irishmen, Poles, Italians, and other immigrant groups, you are suddenly left with the Anglo-Saxons holding a pretty small slice of the pie. That's a pretty big demographic change, no? Yet the prevalent opinion does not hold that American culture has been "tainted" or the accomplishments its founders marginalized.

So, provided that the immigrants to the United States continue to assimilate, which they are, and faster than ever before, then the only thing that will really change is that people will be browner, and maybe we'll celebrate Cinco de Mayo as much as St. Patrick's. No exactly a big deal.

Of course, that's the United States. Europe is another matter, due to a multitude of factors, primarily xenophobia, their immigrants aren't assimilating very well, and that certainly does pose problems.

[Scar Face]

Only if the newcomers are not assimilating into the culture of their new homeland. If they are, then there is no problem, and I can back this up with historical evidence. When the United States was funded, it was mostly composed of Englishmen. By the end of the Victorian age, about half the population had German ancestry. When you add to that all the Irishmen, Poles, Italians, and other immigrant groups, you are suddenly left with the Anglo-Saxons holding a pretty small slice of the pie. That's a pretty big demographic change, no? Yet the prevalent opinion does not hold that American culture has been "tainted" or the accomplishments its founders marginalized.

The immigrants coming in to America were of Western culture, its a little easier to assimilate people- and I speaking long term when I use this- when there is physical differences, and no large scale cultural differences.

So, provided that the immigrants to the United States continue to assimilate, which they are, and faster than ever before, then the only thing that will really change is that people will be browner, and maybe we'll celebrate Cinco de Mayo as much as St. Patrick's. No exactly a big deal.

It is actually, a rather big deal. It doesn't really matter if they assimilate culturally because conflict is still inevitable. Basically, if in three centuries from now the White people have gone the way of the Indian, will I be happy? No. That is very much a possibility. Now, I don't mean we will die to diseases and be pushed out of our land and into reserves, but I mean will become minorities, will the country be subject to the whim of other peoples? That is a realistic possibility.

Germans in the past may of not assimilated as quickly as people do currently, but a century down the line you cant pick a German out of the street, you don't know who he is. Once the Cultural differences fall away, a people mold into the general population. That isn't true when you can still clearly point them out. Racial tensions are a fact of life, they are living breathing example of change, and people hate that. This creates prejudice on both sides, and it changes the construct of the nation. As of now, North America is dominated by an Anglo Saxon culture and people.

Beyond that, and again this is true of all immigrants, they always hold on to a section of their culture, at least for a few generations. Some German families, some Italian families, some Irish families, still hold true to past traditions. Not that many, because most have not only assimilated but been absorbed, and that is the key difference. Assimilation means you follow the culture of the majority, being absorbed means you lack even the fundamental understanding of where your family once came from, the differences between a German and an Englishmen.

Hell there isn't that many to start with. There are many differences between an Englishmen and a Middle eastern, and because you can easily pick out the differences in the middle of the street they will not absorbed into the general populace, people will always hold on to race, and that will result in what? Down the line, most likely death, or a people and a culture being shoved aside.

Of course, that's the United States. Europe is another matter, due to a multitude of factors, primarily xenophobia, their immigrants aren't assimilating very well, and that certainly does pose problems.

Right...no. It's not really xenophobia holding back the immigrant population. Obviously its a factor, but so is the reverse. The immigrants are uneducated, take their religion very seriously, and are angry. Its not a one sided affair.

[Adrian Laguna]

The immigrants coming in to America were of Western culture, its a little easier to assimilate people- and I speaking long term when I use this- when there is physical differences, and no large scale cultural differences.

Firstly, the vast majority of the people coming into the United States are still of Western culture. Secondly, I think that's false. East Asians in North America have assimilated extremely well, despite coming from a different culture, having distinct physical differences, and originally being treated little better than slaves.

It is actually, a rather big deal. It doesn't really matter if they assimilate culturally because conflict is still inevitable. Basically, if in three centuries from now the White people have gone the way of the Indian, will I be happy? No. That is very much a possibility. Now, I don't mean we will die to diseases and be pushed out of our land and into reserves, but I mean will become minorities, will the country be subject to the whim of other peoples? That is a realistic possibility.

So in short, you're afraid that the brown people will treat the whites like the whites have treated... oh just about every other ethnic group in the whole dammed planet. Well, I have good news for you, there is little if any racism among assimilated foreigners in the United States. They consider themselves Americans, they consider whites to be fellow Americans, and they don't have a problem with it them. Whatever racism there is tends to be directed toward blacks, not whites.

Germans in the past may of not assimilated as quickly as people do currently, but a century down the line you cant pick a German out of the street, you don't know who he is. Once the Cultural differences fall away, a people mold into the general population. That isn't true when you can still clearly point them out.

Only when racist idiots insist on believing that everyone who looks different is be a foreigner. In the absence of that, your statement is simply not true. In Venezuela most people have skin that's a bit tanned, and tend toward dark coloured eyes and hair. Yet the immigrants we had from Europe and North America in the early and mid 20th century were of sufficient quantity, and assimilated so well, that when people see a pale-skinned blonde or red head in the streets of Caracas they don't even think about it. The same can happen in North America, once enough non-whites have assimilated, and the rest of the country has gotten used to them, they won't stand out if they look different, only if the act different.

Racial tensions are a fact of life, they are living breathing example of change, and people hate that. This creates prejudice on both sides, and it changes the construct of the nation.

So demographic change is a bad thing because racist jackasses don't like it? Maybe we shouldn't have had a Civil Rights movement, lots of people hated that too. Racism is a social problem, one that can be and is (slowly) being dealt with, not a contraindicator for demographic change.

As of now, North America is dominated by an Anglo Saxon culture and people.

North America is dominated by an Anglo-Saxon derived culture, yes, but it hasn't been dominated by Anglo-Saxon people for a long time. As I said before, demographic change already happened, and yet North America is still North America.

Beyond that, and again this is true of all immigrants, they always hold on to a section of their culture, at least for a few generations. Some German families, some Italian families, some Irish families, still hold true to past traditions. Not that many, because most have not only assimilated but been absorbed, and that is the key difference. Assimilation means you follow the culture of the majority, being absorbed means you lack even the fundamental understanding of where your family once came from, the differences between a German and an Englishmen.

This will happen eventually, it just takes time, it has always taken time. If the immigrants assimilate, if they adopt American culture as their own, which as I said before they are doing, then they will be absorbed. If they are allowed to then there is really no reason why they wouldn't be absorbed almost completely in the long run.

There are many differences between an Englishmen and a Middle eastern, and because you can easily pick out the differences in the middle of the street they will not absorbed into the general populace, people will always hold on to race, and that will result in what? Down the line, most likely death, or a people and a culture being shoved aside.

Since your premises about how a populace can't be absorbed if they look different are false, your conclusion that this will lead to violence is therefore also false.

Right...no. It's not really xenophobia holding back the immigrant population. Obviously its a factor, but so is the reverse. The immigrants are uneducated, take their religion very seriously, and are angry. Its not a one sided affair.

I said xenophobia was a problem, not that European xenophobia was a problem. I meant the comment to cut both ways. I expect Europe will have a difficult and interesting time dealing with this issue, and the ones you brought up, but they are not insurmountable problems.

[Syron]

In the news and practically everywhere else we can see a discussion of immigration, demographic change and so forth. But what I am curious is since Europe and every other continent on the globe has changed in the past 500 years demographically what is wrong with future upcoming change?

Nothing, unless you're on the losing side.

At the turn of the last century it was mostly Europeans who had a huge population boom and with a flood of settlers and colonizers changed continents and cultures. Clothing for example throughout the world has been predominately westernized in the last 150 years. So this brings up the question what is wrong with cultural/ demographic or religious change?

And i don't particularly believe all that went too well for the natives........

[Miraj]

Depends where. I can understand European sentiments, it's similar to why the Japanese, Malaysians or other asian nations have similar stances towards immigration.

But as far as North America is concerned (Canada/USA) the racists can frankly shove it. I'm a hardcore supporter for a racially, ethnically and religiously mixed Canada in all it's multicultural glory. Moar immigrants plz. It's a good thing.

People of European decent here have no exclusive claims to this land, I'm as much a Canadian and my dad probably pays more taxes than lots of the supposed 'natives'. If someone doesn't like my brown self calling myself a Canadian he should try and do something about it.

So basically demographic change in N. America is frickin awesome.

[christof139]

I wouldn't be arrogant with Canadians or other people that have served their nation and been wounded or injured or not or have had friends and relatives die for it.

Immigrant and native etc. jerks that are unnecessarily arrogant and snide to other people that have done more than they for their society should be quiet and show respect or leave.

Chris

[Miraj]

Jerks that are unnecessarily arrogant and snide to other people that have done more than they for their society should be quiet and show respect or leave.

I agree 100%.

You should take that advice yourself too.

[Scar Face]

In what way, pray tell, do Europeans have legitimate concerns about immigration and North Americans do not?

This should be fun.

[czePowerslave]

In the news and practically everywhere else we can see a discussion of immigration, demographic change and so forth. But what I am curious is since Europe and every other continent on the globe has changed in the past 500 years demographically what is wrong with future upcoming change?

Its a question who is immigrating and what they bring with them...and then you can usually see why are people against and afraid.

[Steel of Fury]

I wouldn't be arrogant with Canadians or other people that have served their nation and been wounded or injured or not or have had friends and relatives die for it.

Immigrant and native etc. jerks that are unnecessarily arrogant and snide to other people that have done more than they for their society should be quiet and show respect or leave.

Well stated.