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    Tadzreuli's Avatar Chevalier Blanche
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    Default Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    hi, guys, I posted this information in RS forum, but I think if you going to add some new faction in future, this information is very useful for you too.





    Kingdom of Kartli
    ---------------------------------
    Kingdom of Iberia
    ქართლი
    Ίβερια


    I. faction overview at IVc. BC- II c. AD


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Iberia (Georgian — იბერია, Latin: Iberia or Iberi and Greek: Ἰβηρία), also known as Iveria (Georgian: ივერია), was a name given by the ancient Greeks and Romans to the ancient Georgian kingdom of Kartli (4th century BC-5th century AD). The term Caucasian Iberia (or Eastern Iberia) is used to distinguish it from the Iberian Peninsula, where the present day states of Spain and Portugal are located. The Caucasian Iberians provided a basis for later Georgian statehood and along with Colchis (early western Georgian state) formed a core of the present day Georgian people (or Kartvelians).
    The area was inhabited in earliest times by several relative tribes, collectively called Iberians (the Eastern Iberians) by ancient authors. Locals called their country Kartli after a mythic chief, Kartlos.

    The Moschi mentioned by various classic historians, and their possible descendants, the Saspers (who were mentioned by Herodotus), may have played a crucial role in the consolidation of the tribes inhabiting the area. The Moschi had moved slowly to the northeast forming settlements as they traveled. The chief of these was Mtskheta, the future capital of the Iberian kingdom. The Mtskheta tribe was later ruled by a principal locally known as mamasakhlisi (“the father of the household” in Georgian).

    The medieval Georgian source Moktsevai Kartlisai (“Conversion of Kartli”) speak also about Azo and his people, who came from Arian-Kartli - the initial home of the proto-Iberians, which had been under Achaemenid rule until the fall of the Persian Empire - to settle on the site where Mtskheta was to be founded. Another Georgian chronicle Kartlis Tskhovreba (“History of Kartli”) claims Azo to be an officer of Alexander’s, who massacred a local ruling family and conquered the area, until being defeated at the end of the 4th century BC by Prince Pharnavaz, who was at that time a local chief.

    Pharnavaz, victorious in power struggle, became the first king of Iberia (ca. 302-ca. 237 BC). Driving back an invasion, he subjugated the neighbouring areas, including significant part of the western Georgian state of Colchis (locally known as Egrisi), and seems to have secured recognition of the newly founded state by the Seleucids of Syria. Now Pharnavaz focused on social projects, including the citadel of the capitol, the Armaztsikhe, and the idol of the god Armazi. He also reformed the Georgian written language, and created a new system of administration subdividing the country in several counties called saeristavos. His successors managed to gain control over the mountainous passes of the Caucasus with the Daryal (also known as the Iberian Gates) being the most important of them.

    The period following this time of prosperity was one of incessant warfare though. Iberia was forced to defend against numerous invasions into their territories. Iberia lost some of its southern provinces to Armenia, and the Colchian lands seceded to form separate princedoms (sceptuchoi). In the end of the 2nd century BC, the Pharnavazid king Farnadjom was dethroned by his own subjects and the crown given to the Armenian prince Arshak who ascended the Iberian throne in 93 BC, establishing the Arshakids dynasty.

    This close association with Armenia brought upon the country an invasion (65 BC) by the Roman general Pompey, who was then at war with Mithradates VI of Pontus, and Armenia; but Rome did not establish her power permanently over Iberia. Nineteen years later, the Romans again marched (36 BC) on Iberia forcing King Pharnavaz II to join their campaign against Albania.

    While another Georgian kingdom of Colchis was administered as a Roman province, Iberia freely accepted the Roman Imperial protection. A stone inscription discovered at Mtskheta speaks of the first-century ruler Mihdrat I (AD 58-106) as "the friend of the Caesars" and the king "of the Roman-loving Iberians." Emperor Vespasian fortified the ancient Mtskheta site of Arzami for the Iberian kings in 75 AD.

    The next two centuries saw a continuation of Roman influence over the area, but by the reign of King Pharsman II (116 – 132) Iberia had regained some of its former power. Relations between the Roman Emperor Hadrian and Pharsman II were strained, though Hadrian is said to have sought to appease Pharsman. However, it was only under Hadrian's successor Antoninus Pius that relations improved to the extent that Pharsman is said to have even visited Rome, where Dio Cassius reports that a statue was erected in his honor and that rights to sacrifice were given. The period brought a major change to the political status of Iberia with Rome recognizing them as an ally, rather than their former status as a subject state, a political situation which remained the same, even during the Empire's hostilities with the Parthians.




    II. maps of ancient Iberia (Kartli)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 









    region/city at 280 BC

    1. Iberia (Kartli) – Mtskheta (capital of faction)
    2. Colchis ¬- Kutaia



    III. dynasty of Ancient Iberian (Kartlian) kings

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Pharnavazians (Pharnavazids)

    Pharnavaz I (ca 302-237 BC) – founder of Royal dynasty – Pharnavazians (Pharnavazids)
    Saurmag I Pharnavazid (ca 237-162 BC)
    Mirian I Pharnavazid (ca 162-112 BC)
    Pharnajom Pharnavazid (ca 112-93 BC)

    Arshakids

    Arshak I Arshakid (ca 93-81 BC)
    Artag Arshakid (ca 81-63 BC)
    Pharnavaz II Arshakid (ca 63-32 BC)

    Nimrodids, or Second Pharnavazian dynasty

    Mirian II (32-23 BC)
    Arshak II (20-2 BC)
    Aderk (2 BC-AD 30)
    Mithridates I (30-50)
    Pharsman I (50-58)
    Qartam (58-72)
    Kaos (72-87)
    Azork (87-106)
    Amazasp (106-116)
    Pharsman II the Brave (“Qveli”) (116-142)
    Radamist (142-145)
    Pharsman III (145-185)
    Amazasp II (185-189)
    Rev I the Just (“Martali”) (189-216)
    Vache (216-234)
    Bakur I (234-249)
    Mithridates II Mihrdat (249-265)
    ( Amazasp III, anti-king (260-265) )
    Asphagur I (265-284)

    Chosroids

    Mirian III (284-361), who introduced Christianity into Georgia
    ( Rev II, co-regent (345-361) )
    Saurmag II (361-363)
    Varaz-Bakur I (Asphagur II) (363-365)
    Mithridates III (365-380)
    Varaz-Bakur II (Asphagur III) (380-394)
    Tiridat (394-406)
    Pharsman IV (406-409)
    Mithridates IV (409-411)
    Archil (411-435)
    Mithridates V (435-447)
    Vakhtang I (447-502)
    Dachi (502-514)
    Bakur II (Gurgen) (514-528)
    Pharsman V (528-542)
    Pharsman VI (542-547)
    Bakur III (547-580)


    ____________________________________________________________

    faction ruller at 280 BC

    faction leader – mephe (king) – Pharnavaz I (ca 302-237 BC) – age 47 >

    King of Iberia in the third century BCE and founder of the Parnavazid dynasty. He was a nephew of Mamasakhlisi Samara, one of the elders of Mtskheta. In the fourth century BCE, the Georgian principalities found themselves involved in the whirlwind of Alexander the Great’s campaign in the east. There is no historical evidence that Alexander himself campaigned in the Caucasus, but, according to medieval chronicle Kartlis tskhovreba, some Macedonian troops did reach Iberia, which they occupied and placed under the governorship of Azo. The “Greek” authorities proved to be harsh and uncompromising which caused increasing discontent among the local population. According to Georgian tradition, young Parnavaz, a nephew of the last ruler of Mtskheta who was assassinated by the new authorities, contacted Eristavi Kuji of Egrisi and, with his support, launched a successful rebellion against Azo.
    Parnavaz married the daughter of Kuji and thus controlled both the eastern and western Georgian principalities. He founded the Parnavazid dynasty and divided the eastern and southeastern Georgian lands into seven regions under the governorship of eristavis (Argveti, Kakheti, Gardabani, Tashir-Abotsi, Javakheti-Kolas-Artani, Samtskhe-Adjara and Kvarjeti) and established Shida Kartli as a special region ruled by a spaspet. Western Georgia remained a subordinate state ruled by Kuji, Parnavaz’s father-in-law. King Parnavaz is credited with spreading the Georgian alphabet throughout the kingdom and introducing the cult of the Armazi and the goddess of fertility Zadeni. Armazis-tsikhe, the citadel of Mtskheta, was expanded and reinforced and an immense statue of Armazi was erected here. Parnavaz maintained friendly relations with the heirs of Alexander the Great, especially with Seleucid Empire in Asia.


    queen – Medea, age > 45

    son – prince Saurmag , age > 25
    son – Artag , age > 22
    son – Radamist , age > 19
    doughter – Nana, age >16


    IV. ancient Georgian names/surnames

    male names

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Adarnase
    Aderk
    Aiet
    Artag
    Armaz
    Artavaz
    Alexandre
    Archil
    Arshak
    Arshusha
    Azon
    Bartom
    Bakur
    Bachana
    Bagrat
    Gubaz
    Kartlos
    Kakhaber
    Kuji
    Khosrov
    Khsepanrug
    Mirdat
    Mihran
    Mithridate
    Pharsman
    Pharnavaz
    Pharnake
    Radamist
    Saurmag
    Vakhtang
    Varaz
    Varazbakur
    Zevakh


    female names

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Aia
    Ariadna
    Asheqali
    Babale
    Babilina
    Baia
    Bela
    Borena
    Brola
    Gaiane
    Gvanca
    Gogola
    Gulnaz
    Gulnara
    Gulsunda
    Gulisvardi
    Gurandukht
    Dali
    Davar
    Darejan
    Dedika
    Denola
    Diana
    Dina
    Dielo
    Dodo
    Domna
    Dudana
    Elene
    Ia
    Iamze
    Kaltamze
    Kamar
    Kravai
    Lamara
    Lela
    Lile
    Lali
    Medea
    Natela
    Nani
    Nana
    Nino
    Mzeqala
    Mzia
    Mzevinar
    Rodam
    Rusudan
    Sanata
    Sagdukht
    Seraphita
    Suliko
    Tsisnami
    Tsisa
    Tsoqali
    Zizilo
    Zizi


    surnames

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Pharnavazid
    Arshakid
    Arsukisdze
    Phartadze
    Khosroid
    Nimroid
    of Mtsketa
    of Shavsheti
    of Tukharisi
    of Phasis
    of Odzrkhe
    of Tsunda
    of Trialeti
    of Samtskhe
    of Meskheti
    of Javakheti
    of Klarjeti
    of Sebastopolis
    of Armazi
    of Speri
    of Artanuji
    of Nekresi
    of Khunani
    of Khertvisi
    of Shorapani
    of Tashiri
    of Lazica
    of Aphsaros
    of Bichvinta
    of Samshvilde
    of Phkhovi



    V. pre-Christian pantheon of ancient Georgians (Iberia and Colchis)

    The main Gods

    1) Armazi (Georgian: არმაზი) god of gods..., the great gods, conquerors of the world, lighters of the sun, givers of rain, who cause the fruits of the earth to grow, was the main god in Kartli’s (Iberia) official religion established by King Parnavaz of Iberia (4th century, BC). According to the legend, an immense statue of Armazi was crushed by the lighting after St Nino’s pray. Armazi is also the name of an ancient fortress near Mtskheta that dates from the same period.

    shrine of Armazi - +1 troops trained, + 1 experience, + 1 morale, + 5% heppiness
    temple of Armazi – +2 troops trained, + 2 experience, + 2 upgrade morale, + 10% heppiness
    great temple of Armazi - +3 troops trained, + 3 experience, + 3 morale, + 3 upgrade malee weapon, + 10% heppiness
    pantheon of Armazi - +4 troops trained, + 4 experience, + 4 morale, + 4 upgrade malee weapon, + 20% heppiness



    2) Zaden (Georgian: ზადენი) was the god of fertility in Iberian official pantheon established by Parnavaz I.

    shrine of Zaden - + 5% heppiness, + 5% food production, + 1% population
    temple of Zaden - + 10% heppiness, + 10% food production, + 2% population
    great temple of Zaden - + 15% heppiness, + 15% food production, + 5% population
    pantheon of Zaden - + 20% heppiness, + 20% food production, + 10% population

    3) Dali (Georgian: dali) Deyla or Dalila, was the hunt goddess and 'lady of stones and animals'. She was believed to be a temptress and to have many love affairs with hunters brutally killing the traitors.

    shrine of Dali - + 5% heppiness, + 5% food production, + 1% population, + 1 upgrade missile weapon
    sacred valley of Dali - + 10% heppiness, + 10% food production, + 3% population, + 2 upgrade missile weapon
    temple of Dali - + 15% heppiness, + 15% food production, + 5% population, + 3 upgrade missile weapon





    VI. titles and ancillary in ancient Georgia

    titles

    Mephe Kartlisa – King of all Georgian tribes including Kartlians (Iberians) and Colchians, + 4 command, + 4 authority, + 10 law, + 5 loyalty

    Spaspeti – royal army chief in Kingdom of Iberia , + 3 command, + 2 authority

    Eristavi – chief of royal administration in Georgian province, + 1 command, + 1 authority, + 1 loyalty

    ancillary

    priest of Armazi - + 3 command, + 1 authority
    priest of Zaden - + 3 popularity, + 3 administration



    VII. army unit roster of ancient Kingdom of Kartli (Iberia)

    infantry

    1. eastern infantry – light spearmen
    2. hillmen - light
    3. Iberian spearmen – medium spearmen
    4. Colchian armoured Hoplites – heavy infantry, long spear+sword
    5. Colchian axemen – heavy armoured infantry
    6. Royal guard infantry – heavy, spearmen+sword
    7. Armazi guard – heavy spearmen+mace
    8. Iberian nobles – heavy armoured, sword+javelin
    9. Horoli infantry – medium, javelin+sword

    *Horoli > pillum, javelin

    cavalry

    1. eastern horse archers – light
    2. Iberian cavalry – medium lancers
    3. Horoli cavalry – medium, javelin+sword
    4. Katafracts – heavy lancers+mace, heavy armoured horse
    5. Iberian nobles cavalry – heavy, bow+mace, half barded horse
    6. Royal guard – heavy, axe+bow, heavy armoured horse
    7. Iberian heavy chariots – heavy, soldiers with spear+bow

    missile

    1. slingers - light
    2. eastern archers – light
    3. hunters of Dali – heavy, bow+axe


    VIII. faction simbols

    Since olden days Iberia (Kartli, Sakartvelo>Georgia) named the country of wolves. A symbol of a wolf it has been very extended among the Iberian soldiers, well-known Iberian king Vakhtang Gorgasali carried a symbol of a wolf on a fighting helmet. Vakhtang was very high and strong, it was the hero whom all soldiers of the enemy were afraid. Having seen in the field of fight king Vakhtang, the scared Persians shouted in their language: "dur az Gurgasar", that meant: "be careful of a head of a wolf".

    old Persian called ancient Sakartvelo ("Georgia" in native Georgian language) - Gurgan, this means "country of wolves", from "gurgan" is arabic word "gurj/kurj" and siryan "gurz", russian 'gruzia", greec "georgia" (but "georgia" mean ''country' of fermers")....

    wolves simbol are on the ancient Georgian coins and I sugest to make this simbol as faction simbol.




    also this is one of them important ancient Georgian simbol, Georgian "Swastika" - "Borjgali"








    -------------------


    as soon as I post sketches of Iberian (ancient Georgian) units and symbol of faction
    Last edited by Tadzreuli; July 06, 2008 at 07:10 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    I'll let Foot take a peek.

    But kudos to you, here is how a faction should really be proposed.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    Good idea!!
    Very educational - I didn't even know this place existed!
    The chariots sound cool.
    + rep!

  4. #4
    Beka's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    I'll add only one thing. if you add Kartli it will keep Armenia from expanding to north add Armenia might expand to south which is historically correct

  5. #5

    Icon3 Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    Quote Originally Posted by Beka View Post
    I'll add only one thing. if you add Kartli it will keep Armenia from expanding to north add Armenia might expand to south which is historically correct
    But then you'll have the problem of Kartli expanding north .

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    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    But then you'll have the problem of Kartli expanding north .
    Yes, but at least it would be more accurate than Armenia expanding north...

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil 11 View Post
    Yes, but at least it would be more accurate than Armenia expanding north...
    I agreee
    +rep

  8. #8

    Icon3 Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil 11 View Post
    Yes, but at least it would be more accurate than Armenia expanding north...
    Explain to me why Kartli expanding into the steppes is less bad than Armenia doing so.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    Explain to me why Kartli expanding into the steppes is less bad than Armenia doing so.
    well Armenia expanding into steppes means that it does not expand south and that means that that it won’t take Seleucids territories and that means that Seleucids are in a little better situation then they were historically.

    And as for Kartli if it expands north it won’t be a big problem like in Armenia’s case

  10. #10

    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    As Krusader said, this is one of the best faction proposals I've seen so far. Great stuff.

  11. #11
    The Bronze boy's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    Wow Little Iberia seems to be more active and expansionist then I would have thought:hmmm: . But would be intresting.
    within us all there is a flicker
    And through our lives
    we must turn it into a fire
    If not it will all be extinguished


  12. #12

    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    a very nice post bet it would be cool to see them in the game
    Check out my AAR on the Makedonia Spartan league based off the campaign
    "Take of a Makedonia Spartan"

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    Yes I understand but in allmost all of my campaigns Armenia overruns Sarmatians and in most cases it doesn't bother expending south even if Seleucids are weakened.
    And as for Armenia swallowing Kartli or vice versa I doubt it will happen if they will have good relationship in the start.(I don't say that they won't do it later in the game).
    Armenia only expends north after it has taken Mstkheta en Kotais. and it is much easier to take tham now because rebbels don't fight back and if we shall have faction there.

  14. #14

    Icon3 Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    I see. However, I don't think faction expansion in EB1 is a good indicator of expansion in EB2. Also, I don't follow your logic. The Armenians are unwilling to attack the faction to their south. Your solution would be to place a faction to their north that is not only far weaker, but also not an ally, in order to induce them to go south? Chances are they will either attack their northern neighbour, or simply go inert.

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    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    Quote Originally Posted by Beka View Post
    Yes I understand but in allmost all of my campaigns Armenia overruns Sarmatians and in most cases it doesn't bother expending south even if Seleucids are weakened.
    And as for Armenia swallowing Kartli or vice versa I doubt it will happen if they will have good relationship in the start.(I don't say that they won't do it later in the game).
    Armenia only expends north after it has taken Mstkheta en Kotais. and it is much easier to take tham now because rebbels don't fight back and if we shall have faction there.
    I agree - same here!

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    Ok im sorry to sound like such an ignorant prig but why are the Kartli referred to as the Kingdom Caucasian Iberia and when you say Iberian infantry do you mean a lá Lusitanian infantry or an Anatoilan/Steepe infantry hybrid?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    Iberia was a Kingdom in the Caucasus mountains whose lands roughly equated to modern day Georgia in the same region. There is no relation between the peninsular of Iberia in the west (modern day Spain and Portugal) and the Iberia of the Caucasus mountains.

    Foot
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    Quote Originally Posted by Foot View Post
    Iberia was a Kingdom in the Caucasus mountains whose lands roughly equated to modern day Georgia in the same region. There is no relation between the peninsular of Iberia in the west (modern day Spain and Portugal) and the Iberia of the Caucasus mountains.

    Foot
    This is true. I would, though, not say that there is no relation at all between the Iberian peninsula and ancient Iberia, as some linguists would have it that there are linguistic relations between native Caucasian languages such as those found in ancient Iberia and the languages of the Iberians in the peninsula, mostly those in the north, such as in Basque territory. It's an interesting thought for those vested in historical linguistics.
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  19. #19
    Populus Romanus's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    Quote Originally Posted by mamik_yev_konak View Post
    This is true. I would, though, not say that there is no relation at all between the Iberian peninsula and ancient Iberia, as some linguists would have it that there are linguistic relations between native Caucasian languages such as those found in ancient Iberia and the languages of the Iberians in the peninsula, mostly those in the north, such as in Basque territory. It's an interesting thought for those vested in historical linguistics.
    Really? I thought that there were no language relatives of Basque. And I am pretty sure the name correlation between the two is a mere coincidence.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Kingdom of Kartli (Caucasian Iberia), discussion for mew faction

    Quote Originally Posted by mamik_yev_konak View Post
    This is true. I would, though, not say that there is no relation at all between the Iberian peninsula and ancient Iberia, as some linguists would have it that there are linguistic relations between native Caucasian languages such as those found in ancient Iberia and the languages of the Iberians in the peninsula, mostly those in the north, such as in Basque territory. It's an interesting thought for those vested in historical linguistics.
    And there are genetic similarities too - its just not relevant. Neither of these things were known to the ancient historians who named to the two places.

    The only thing that these two places share is that to some ancients these two regions were at one point the extreme limits of the world.

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