An Honest Question for Atheists

[André Masséna]

Stemming from an interesting discussion I had with a TWC atheist on the difference between atheism and anti theism.
By definition, Atheism is "Atheism, as an explicit position is the affirmation of the nonexistence of gods.[1] It is also[3] defined more broadly as synonymous with any form of nontheism, including the simple absence of belief in deities."


So in a buttshell, you've got people who just don't believe in God. Okay, reasonable I Suppose. But why do some of these people devote so much of their time to talking about a God or gods they don't even believe in? Shouldn't an atheist pretty much just say "meh, don't believe in God" call it a day and leave? It seems to me, that a fair number of the ones on TWC aren't atheists at all, but more anti-theists. Are you truly an atheist if you actively seek to convert people to your beliefs that no God exists...or something more?

Shouldn't an atheist reserve himself to his own beliefs and leave it at that? Instead of actively trying to convince other people that they are either wrong or they should join his way of thinking.

I don't know, maybe it's just this silly old Goose who doesn't get it.

[Vilhjalmr]

You have forgotten the fact that debate is extremely entertaining, and that debate about religion is -- for atheists at least -- quite fun indeed.


Also, sometimes the beliefs of people can effect other people, in this case atheists like myself, in an adverse fashion (Most annoyingly in the case of things like creation in schools and suchlike.), and in these cases it is perfectly understandable that atheists would wish to convince people that their beliefs, and by extension the particular activity in question, are ill-founded and should be changed/stopped.

People also have a wonderful habit of trying to change other people's opinions to match their own -- religious conversion attempts throughout mankind's history are a wonderful example of this. If a large portion of humanity was (still) convinced that tomatoes were deadly poisonous to eat, wouldn't you feel the need to demonstrate the opposite?

But mostly I think it's just for the fun of argument that we like to debate these things.

[whhyy]

You have forgotten the fact that debate is extremely entertaining, and that debate about religion is -- for atheists at least -- quite fun indeed.

Pretty much sums it up.

[Dayman]

You have forgotten the fact that debate is extremely entertaining, and that debate about religion is -- for atheists at least -- quite fun indeed.

Quoted for the f'ing truth.

[Zhuge_Liang]

Stemming from an interesting discussion I had with a TWC atheist on the difference between atheism and anti theism.
By definition, Atheism is "Atheism, as an explicit position is the affirmation of the nonexistence of gods.[1] It is also[3] defined more broadly as synonymous with any form of nontheism, including the simple absence of belief in deities."


So in a buttshell, you've got people who just don't believe in God. Okay, reasonable I Suppose. But why do some of these people devote so much of their time to talking about a God or gods they don't even believe in? Shouldn't an atheist pretty much just say "meh, don't believe in God" call it a day and leave? It seems to me, that a fair number of the ones on TWC aren't atheists at all, but more anti-theists. Are you truly an atheist if you actively seek to convert people to your beliefs that no God exists...or something more?

Shouldn't an atheist reserve himself to his own beliefs and leave it at that? Instead of actively trying to convince other people that they are either wrong or they should join his way of thinking.

I don't know, maybe it's just this silly old Goose who doesn't get it.

Shouldn't christians leave people to decide their own beliefs? Christians think they have an active duty as part of their religion to try to convert as many people as possible. This is the exact point most of the atheists i have met on these forums seem to be trying to put across. They are not looking to convert people to atheism, but rather allow people to choose whatever religion they want and be accepted. Don't forget that atheists have been and are still persecuted and looked down on as worse than a rival religion by christians and other religions. Atheists seek freedom and equality.

Many topics on this forum also are based around the uselessness of atheism as a lack of beliefs and are highly insulting to the intelligence of atheists especially given the incredibly poor (often non-existant) arguments put forward by theists.

Rather than being anti-theist atheists are given reasons for why they are and are asking religious people to try to understand that. As the reasons for atheists being what they are are completely sound and irrefutable some consider this an attack on their religion as it unintentionally undermines everything they stand for.

If people on these forums do try to convert others out of their religion then they are anti-theists by definition, not atheists. This is not something many people realise however.

[That Damn Robot!]

If you don't question your beliefs constantly then you'll stagnate. Just because a fair few theists refuse to budge from even the most precarious theological and philosophical ground and refuse to consider their own position then it doesn't necessarily mean that we should accept that they have their ineffable and unquestionable beliefs. Argument and discussion pushes people further to defend and develop their ideas. It seems to me that the main gripe with atheists and their attitude towards theism/theists is that atheists dare to question and develop their outlook and some theists refuse to on religious grounds.

It's not an anti-theism parade, it just makes sense in an open debate to question theism agressively if a theist climbs up onto shaky ground and refuses or is unsuccesful in intellectually consolidating their position.

[Green]

There are plenty of atheists who don't debate or discuss religion, and those are the atheists who you don't talk to because they're not on the forums. The people who go out of their way to debate religion are the most visible because...they go out of their way to debate religion.

[Axeman]

Well most anti-theists are just against religion establishment , at least thats how it is here.

Aethiest = someone who doesn't believe in god

Anti-thesit = someone who doesn't like a particullar organized religion for whatever reason

Or is that just here?

[gsoxx]

I think Wikipedia did a splendid job on covering the subject. You really can't get dumber by reading that article.
And I think some of these missionary people here should read it too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism...d_distinctions

In short Atheism covers a wide range of standpoints including both points you made.

Now thats funny and totally unbiased:

http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism

I cite: "Currently, there is an ongoing debate on whether atheism was a causal factor for Friedrich Nietzsche's insanity or whether it was caused purely through disease."

[Dayman]

I think Wikipedia did a splendid job in covering the subject. You really can't get dumber by reading that article.
And I think some of these missionary people here should read it too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism...d_distinctions

In short Atheism covers a wide range of standpoints including both points you made.

Now thats funny and totally unbiased:

http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism

I cite: "Currently, there is an ongoing debate on whether atheism was a causal factor for Friedrich Nietzsche's insanity or whether it was caused purely through disease."

That website makes me want to kill things

[gsoxx]

That website makes me want to kill things

It is so full of silly quotes:

"In regards to atheism and morality, the Barna Group also found that those who hold to the worldviews of atheism or agnosticism in America were more likely, than theists in America, to look upon the following behaviors as morally acceptable: illegal drug use; excessive drinking; sexual relationships outside of marriage; abortion; cohabitating with someone of opposite sex outside of marriage; obscene language; gambling; pornography and obscene sexual behavior; and engaging in homosexuality/bisexuality.[52] Given the many diseases associated with homosexuality, the Bible prohibition against homosexuality is quite arguably one of the many examples where the Bible exhibited knowledge that was ahead of its time."

Luckily they already highlighted the best.

[Syron]

So in a buttshell, you've got people who just don't believe in God. Okay, reasonable I Suppose. But why do some of these people devote so much of their time to talking about a God or gods they don't even believe in? Shouldn't an atheist pretty much just say "meh, don't believe in God" call it a day and leave? It seems to me, that a fair number of the ones on TWC aren't atheists at all, but more anti-theists. Are you truly an atheist if you actively seek to convert people to your beliefs that no God exists...or something more?

Is a christian no longer a christian if he knocks on someones door trying to "spread the word?". Is he an anti-atheist?

People talk about these things because it affects their lives. I'm certainly not religious but plenty in my community are. Religion is ever present around us, even in the relatively secular west. It is involved in a wide range of debates from the school curriculum to marriage rights.

Shouldn't an atheist reserve himself to his own beliefs and leave it at that? Instead of actively trying to convince other people that they are either wrong or they should join his way of thinking..

Because religious people don't talk about god and actively try to convince other people that they are either wrong or they should join his way of thinking at all.......

But anyway, people naturally talk about things and debate. Would be a boring world if we didn't.

The fact is there is no difference between anti-theists and atheists. Just how some christians keep their views private and some don't. And i would make a point that just because an athiest debates the subject does not make them anti-theist!

[Miraj]

Lots of atheists genuinely believe the world would be a better place without faith and religion. And lots of atheists are humanists who want a better world. Hence why they try spread the message.

Also the simple fact that 95% of humans are believers in some deity or another, hence it's also the act of correcting what we believe to be a common 'misconception'.

And lots of atheists do it for fun.

I personally enjoy telling believers they rot in the grave after they die and they have no soul. It makes them cringe everytime. Sensitive bastards.

[McGness]

I personally enjoy telling believers they rot in the grave after they die and they have no soul. It makes them cringe everytime. Sensitive bastards.

We all rot. Rotting in the grave and having no soul are different things. I doubt it makes them cringe much at all. That isn't exactly a shocking thing to say. Lots of Atheist also do it to secure themselves in the proven erroneous belief that intellect is what makes us do what we do. Nothingness is something to fear. It is too much of an unknown. Atheists feel fear like everyone else.

[Miraj]

Why are you telling me what happens in my life? It does make them cringe, everytime. And I laugh and laugh.

It's especially funny because I do it during Friday prayers at the Mosque.

[gsoxx]

Why are you telling me what happens in my life? It does make them cringe, everytime. And I laugh and laugh.

It's especially funny because I do it during Friday prayers at the Mosque.

You are the worst!

Good thing is, all Atheists are getting the ultimate goal of Buddhism (Nirvana) for free!
So join us today.

[boofhead]

Why are you telling me what happens in my life? It does make them cringe, everytime. And I laugh and laugh.

Doesn't make me cringe. I know my body will rot, and bloat, and discolour, and become maggot-ridden, and probably pop and release foul odours then disintegrate into dirt. If you think you have no soul....that's sad.

[Kiljaden]

Like was prior said - the debate is fun, interesting. Atheists lack a belief in God, we do not lack a taste for philosophy.

Also it's worth pointing out, at the most basic level, people like to be right. Also, when someone has an idea that's wrong, it's only natural for us to want to correct that wrong idea.

Nothingness is something to fear. It is too much of an unknown.

I disagree. Nothingness is intriguing and thought-provoking. I have never experienced non-existance. To be honest, I can't wait to see what not existing is like.

Atheists feel fear like everyone else.

I fear spiders, they are creepy and wiggly and [irrational thought]might crawl up my leg and gnaw on my jewels.[/irrational thought]

I do not fear death in the same way you think I do. Of course everyone fears death, we want to live and experience and the pain that's normally associated with death isn't a pleasant thought. We actually think eternal life is a blessing, where to any rational person it would seem to be nothing but a curse. But when it comes down to the fact that when I die, "I" will cease to exist, I'm completely okay with that and have been for the past 4 years since I became an effective atheist.

[McGness]

I disagree. Nothingness is intriguing and thought-provoking. I have never experienced non-existance. To be honest, I can't wait to see what not existing is like.

I find it intriguing and thought provoking too. I can wait however. Only a fool doesn't fear something as unknown and possessing the conceivable downside of non existence.

I do not fear death in the same way you think I do. Of course everyone fears death, we want to live and experience and the pain that's normally associated with death isn't a pleasant thought. We actually think eternal life is a blessing, where to any rational person it would seem to be nothing but a curse. But when it comes down to the fact that when I die, "I" will cease to exist, I'm completely okay with that and have been for the past 4 years since I became an effective atheist.

Be ok with it all you want. Being a atheist in no way prepares you for death. Atheism has NOTHING to do with the actual what of death. You do fear it. It is human to fear it. Animals even fear death in a primal way. We are mere glorifying animals.

There are people who say they don't fear battle but none of the people who say that have even been in battle. Fear of death is. Is. Is. Is.

[Kiljaden]

I don't need the comfort blanket of a 'soul idea' anymore, because I believe in the beauty of the universe. However it was that I came about, I am here - and I don't need to delude myself and indulge in unprovable and untestable thoughts to get the most out of life and enjoy with great pleasure the beauty of the world around me.