An age old question about God.....

[Axeman]

Not very original but one that will be and has been asked as this question resonates through the human mind.

If god exists why would he allow such suffering...?

Discuss.

[vizi]

I always thought the argument was that god doesn't, people do.

Besides what is the point of worshiping any god as a savior if said god does everything for you and makes life perfect. Faith and belief are suppose to be about hardship as well...

[Ruin]

God allowed people free will, they bring suffering upon themselves (at least that's the argument).
It falls apart when it is pointed out that God hardly promotes free will in any shape or form.

[whhyy]

It falls apart when it is pointed out that God hardly promotes free will in any shape or form.

Can't they then point out that if God gave them free will he is therefore not against it?

[basics]

In the beginning Adam and Eve fell from the safety that was theirs to belonging to the serpent that persuaded Eve that God's word meant little and under a curse that would infect all their offspring until that is that God Himself calls time on creation. All since are in bondage to sin.

Now Paul goes to great lengths to explain this. Accordingly there is no such thing as free-will. Mankind belongs to Satan and sin. Luther and Calvin expanded Paul's thoughts on the subject of the will and I agree with what they all say. In fact I would like to know how sin and Satan himself allow men the privilege of being saved if he thought that it was real?

The last thing Diablos wants is that men are saved. His purpose is to condemn just as the commandments and the Law condemn, so when men and women convince themselves by way of easy believism, that God answers to them and not the other way round, there is only one being who is happy with that state of affairs.

Why so? Because Satan knows only too well that men cannot save themselves nor do they have the freedom to try. So what they experience, if they experience anything at all, is mere pumped up feelings that don't last the test of time. They become lost in the quest of having to do all the time, the world of works, the very opposite of grace.

[Broken Pope]

Read my post about being able to predict everything - then scroll down to the post where I explain what you're talking about. In philosophy, what you are referring to is called 'the problem of evil.' The 'free will defence' which people seem to be offering you in this thread is the standard response. But it doesn't work, because free will is really an illusion when you think about it properly.

[The Friend]

Not very original but one that will be and has been asked as this question resonates through the human mind.

If god exists why would he allow such suffering...?

Discuss.

"God sees the truth but waits" ---Leo TolStoy

[basics]

Axeman,

I suppose the short answer is that what was done and what is done has more purpose to it than at first we assume. Yes, God could have created us without sin but then there possibly could have been no Jesus Christ as we accept or don't accept Him, Adam and Eve would not have had children and we wouldn't be talking about this.

The whole point about God is that to announce Himself to us in regards to His character, we must know the opposite of that to appreciate what He had in mind for them that He will know personally. An example being the taste of the garden of Eden, wherein men and women seeing the type also see the appeal of no disease, no war etc.,

But that could only come about in His mindset by the fall of humanity so that He personally would interact with men and women because of their fall. The alternative, since there is no marriage, no sex, in heaven, since we would be likened to angels, we just wouldn't be here at all.

That we are here is so that God as Saviour would through the suffering of man, we would get to know Him as He really is. In other words we are here for God's good pleasure, not the other way round and before anyone says He then is not a good God think of the alternatives. Would you prefer never to have existed at all?

[Chaigidel]

sure you can change your perspective to believe any you think up --the universe is not totally deterministic as proven in your thread

suffering is necessary for the overall process--- it allows it because it is not bad; suffering is good for you; it defines you, it shapes you.

[saglam2000]

because he doesn't exist

[Pontifex Maximus]

because he doesn't exist

That's not an anwser, we are assuming God does exist.

If God in fact exists, he allows us to hurt eachother and ourselves because we have free will. Well if he loves us so much, why does he let us suffer?

Parents do the same thing witht heir children. At one point in a baby's life, it will have to sleep by itself. In this time the baby will sit in it's room crying all night and the parent's are not supposed to go in and comfort the baby or else it will never be able to sleep alone. This proces is part of the baby's development.

It might be the same thing with God. God leaves us alone so we can grow and develop normally. If we had Deus Ex Machina every time a war was started, the hate would still exist for probably longer than it would if the war was just fought and that was that.

It's a hard thing to rationalize.

[A.P]

because he doesn't exist

I agree with the guy that has a chicken avatar. But it's ture people bring this upon themselves, too bad (in my opinion) there isn't anyone here to stop it. Other than us but like that's ever going to happen.

[Chaigidel]

correct He Does not exist-- But IT does.

[The Colonel]

Excellent analogy. Humans are crybabies, and always want to point the finger at something or someone, or in this case balming someone for not helping when it was their own fault. Don't blame god for our stupidity, i blame myself for being stupid and giving in to temptation, blame yourself too instead of asking why god does not help. WHY DON'T U HELP?

[Pontifex Maximus]

, blame yourself too instead of asking why god does not help.

Why?

WHY DON'T U HELP?

I'm not God.

[kev-o]

If I were God I probably wouldn't want to micromanage my creations. Let them do what they want and when they die they are judged.

[André Masséna]

Why?

Because, the problems are most likely of our own doing.

I'm not God.

Yet, you have the ability to help. Why don't you?

[Pontifex Maximus]

Because, the problems are most likely of our own doing.

Yet there is so much strife and war in the name of God. Irony.

Yet, you have the ability to help. Why don't you?

Who are you to say that I don't. I give 20 service hours a year.

[Miraj]

God enjoys drinking the tears of sadness and loss. It's what keeps him alive.

[André Masséna]

God enjoys drinking the tears of sadness and loss. It's what keeps him alive.

I used to think that was Strom Thurmond....I was eventually proven wrong.