My problems with the Americas campaign

[Emperor_Palpy]

I almost never play the Americas. It seems pointless to play as a Native tribe, as they always get crushed by the Spanish and later Europeans. Plus, the Spanish are impossible to defeat, because the Indians can't build ships and the Spanish pump out high level, high-tech troops from Cuba.

And the Indians seem incredibly weak. I took a full stack Aztec army, consisting of supposedly my best troops, against a rebel city, and still LOST.

Am I just not playing it right, or what? Any tips on how to make this campaign more enjoyable?

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

You're probably not playing right.
I beat the Americans campaign with the Aztecs and Appaches.

Appaches are pretty easy. Once the Europeans arrive, attack the French immidietly so that you can start stealing their technology. You'll get guns and horses.

The Aztecs are a bit more tricky, you really have to choose where you fight. Never fight in open plains or you lose, heavy cavalry > you.
Personaly I focused on the jungle and mountain areas where the enemy's cavalry was of little use.
I have NO idea how you managed to lose against a rebel settlement.

[Strom]

I can't speak to the Aztecs but as the Mayans I regularly beat Spanish/English stacks in one on one field battles and sieges at least until the Spanish started getting better cavalry at which point I tended to fight defensively in sieges. I believe I was playing on hard/very hard.

The most important thing is that you have to have at least a 3:2 spearman to cavalry advantage. Your spearmen are the only unit that you have that can remotely stand up to cavalry. You need spearmen on both flanks and in the center.

Once the spanish get mounted gunners you need to bring archers too to deal with those, otherwise archers are kindof a waste (although not completely as flaming arrows are still useful.)

Then you just load up your army with fear inducing troops (temple guards iirc and scary priests and charge the spanish line. Flank with your spearmen on the wings, curve around and hit the Spanish cavalry whilst your spearmen in the center try to pin them in place. Try to flank with a real unit as well, set your one or two units of priests to chanting just behind your temple guard, then hit the spanish line in the rear. Normally they rout pretty quickly. I usually have the general just behind my line for low risk morale boosting. One thing to be aware of is that routing cavalry is really dangerous, even if pursued they will normally rally and can really ruin your day when they do.

You can also fight at bridgeheads... Swap out most of the temple guards for archers, javelin men and hornet throwers. Place your hornet throwers so that they throw one volley onto the bridge then stand them down until those nests wear off. Form a U of spearmen at the bridge head, backed up by temple guards and priests for the terror effect. You pretty much have to eat the cannon fire if they have cannons but generally they cause acceptable casualties.

All of that said, I completely agree with you about the Americas campaign. I thought it sucked. I had to fight both the Spanish and the English, with multiple free stacks of scripted reinforcements, and not being able to defeat the Spanish meant that I had to fight identical battles with them again and again and again. Make peace? They just land more troops and attack me with multiple armies a couple of turns later. Massive bribes and alliance? Yup, they just backstab me. It's the tedium more than the difficulty that gets to me.

I seem to recall sieging the rebel enemy cities until they came out to fight me if they had a large garrison. If I'm forced to storm then I'll build eight or more rams and try to break into their city from multiple directions then try to trap the defenders so they rout through my troops. Fighting in the town center is never much fun though and your casualties are bound to be high.

[Gornard]

It often seems like the americas campaign was designed around playing spain. But they should really have some kind of primitive boat, as i don't think historically it was beyond their abilities to sail to caribean islands. Obviously the spanish ships could blow them out of the water, but at least it would give you some oppertunity to finish off the spanish threat.

[Strom]

It often seems like the americas campaign was designed around playing spain. But they should really have some kind of primitive boat, as i don't think historically it was beyond their abilities to sail to caribean islands. Obviously the spanish ships could blow them out of the water, but at least it would give you some oppertunity to finish off the spanish threat.

I wonder if you could actually trade for the settlement of Havana as a native faction if you did it whilst the Spanish were happily ensconced on the mainland? I know that as Byzantium I managed to trade for Antioch, from Antioch (cost me 240Kish and Jerusalem ), but I've never been remotely that rich in the South American campaign.

[Navajo Joe]

I am playing as the Apachean Tribes on the Very Hard Difficulty, around turn 110. At the very start I made two very important alliances with the Chichimec and Aztecs. I conquered the North, whilst keeping the Chichimec as a buffer. The French arrived, so i recruited like hell and managed to put six stacks against their three in a jungle area. They were well beaten, then i mopped up the remainder and never saw them again. The Spanish i left alone generally, as they seem to be at war with the Aztecs and Mayans. I did fight them a couple of times, they won generally, but then asked for a ceasefire, which i gratefully accepted with a cash bonus.
The English were eliminated by the Mayans, within 15 turns of arriving. Presently I occupy 23 territories, the Chichimecs are still my allies and we fight the Aztecs. The Mayans are busy bashing the Spanish and I will choose the right time, with overwhelming numbers and my allies to eliminate the Spanish.
All I would say make Alliances, use your Wisemen to upset them religiously, pick away with your assassins and bide your time.

[Gornard]

I wonder if you could actually trade for the settlement of Havana as a native faction if you did it whilst the Spanish were happily ensconced on the mainland? I know that as Byzantium I managed to trade for Antioch, from Antioch (cost me 240Kish and Jerusalem ), but I've never been remotely that rich in the South American campaign.

AFAIK you can't trade a kingdoms capital. The principality of antiochs capital is knights krac i think, which is how you could buy antoich.

Also was that really a good trade? Jerusalem allows you to build some of your best unique units

[Strom]

AFAIK you can't trade a kingdoms capital. The principality of antiochs capital is knights krac i think, which is how you could buy antoich.

Also was that really a good trade? Jerusalem allows you to build some of your best unique units

Antioch was a Byzantine victory condition, Jerusalem wasn't, and I'd been allied to Antioch all game so it seemed nice to try and trade for it rather than attack them. I won the campaign a few turns later so strategically it didn't hurt me.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

AFAIK you can't trade a kingdoms capital. The principality of antiochs capital is knights krac i think, which is how you could buy antoich.

Also was that really a good trade? Jerusalem allows you to build some of your best unique units

The AI changes it capital. Give the Spanish some regions far away from Havana and they will change their capital. Once they have a new capital you can buy Havana from them. If you survive the unrest/rebellions you can hold on to it and kill the remaining Spanish on the American mainland.

[Emperor_Palpy]

It seems ridiculous that the Spanish can never be defeated. Historically, the Natives could travel to Carribean Islands, they're not that far off. I think the Aztecs tried to take over Jamaica once.

If you can't defeat the Spanish, they'll just keep coming and coming and there is nothing you can do about it.

[bleach]

It seems ridiculous that the Spanish can never be defeated. Historically, the Natives could travel to Carribean Islands, they're not that far off. I think the Aztecs tried to take over Jamaica once.

If you can't defeat the Spanish, they'll just keep coming and coming and there is nothing you can do about it.

Not to mention the fact that Apaches can use European technology, but not the MORE ADVANCED Mayans or Aztecs. It's not like central and south Americans never figured out how to use guns and horses. They just didn't receive those things until -after- those two civilizations were quickly destroyed. Since we're talking about alternate history here, there's just no reason why both factions (and the Tlax too, come to think of it) shouldn't have the same capabilities as the Apaches.

[Gornard]

oh i see

[Jaguar Paw]

You need to come and see the Frontier mod forum. In this mod we plan on correcting many of the historical military/technological problems with the Americas campaign.

[Stanh7]

I really wanted to play as one of the native american factions as well. Here's what I leared so far. The Aztec is probally the hardest one to be becuase I got attacked right at the begining. I seamed like your at complete disatvantage right from the begining. The Apache I though was really fun. They are easy to manage, can take tecnolgy and I really like WAR PATH, i think thats what its called.

My favrote is the Mayan hard setting. I took out the Spanish right at the beginging. Heres how I did it. I sent emesarys to make freinds with them. I produced a bunch of scouts and assasins. I sent them out around there settle ments, and I guess I had a covert war in a sence. I used my assisins to sabatoge churchs, and structures. What this did for me was cuased civil unrest in there settlements. I avoided tring to kill there leaders unless I had a good chance of pulling it off. After a while of doing this it really starts taking a toll on them. What I really enjoyed about this new stratigy is I didn't have to use my military, which allowed me to send them elsewhere. Also the spanish never declared war on me the whole time! They didn't know who was causing this damage to them. What ended up hapening is the rebals ended up taking control of there settlements. About 20 turns into the game they where finshed off. Then I moved in and took over the settlements..........After this about 30 turns later the English showed up on my land. They are quite abit more challeging becuase they didn't take any settlements. There marching there army all over my map. They stuck together. I started the covert war thing with them. I mananged to knock off a few of there leaders. Then they caught on, and declared war. I'm glad I had allot of troops porduced becuase it got really bloody. My math is in order for the Myan or Aztec to beat the Eurpean on the battle feild is you need to out number them by 25% . It's do able but not easy. I used my agents just as much as my troops to take them out. Pick at them with the assasins. It took a long time but, and it's a pain becuase you have to focus or efforts just on them. You can't have two wars going on. Somtimes you get Assisnation missions too which helps pay that war dept. I keep the sacrifices going daily to keep the people happy. High tax rate and build as much as you can afford. Make sure you have a good troop count in every settlement and build stuff to keep order and make the people happy. Thats how you can beat them off. It's a thinking mans game playing as the natives.

[Poach]

I know it's lame but once I'd taken every possible settlement in the game except Havana I just used the move character cheat, I wanted to win and couldn't be bothered fighting Spanish stacks landing every few turns.

Had I thought of that clever capital moving trick earlier I may have used it!

[Stanh7]

I really enjoy this topic. I think it takes a great deal of creativty to beat an oponent that is way more advaned then you are. If you really think about europe was about 2000 years more advanced then the native americans as far as weapons go. Maybe even more then that. If you think about the Mayens and Aztecs where the most advanced. They where about as advanced as the aceint Egyptians where. So you have to use comon sense. You can't fight head on becuase you will get your head handed to you. You have to use a different aprouch. I think it is vary important to keep your poeple as happy as you can. And be as productive as posible. Try to stay freinds with the other native americans. I'm having some issues with that becuase the other natives have there own wars. You have to pick your sides carfuly. :hmmm:I'm trying to avoid fights with exseption to the rebals and the Europians. Once the Europians are no longer a surios threat then I will fight the other tribes.

[Double A]

... Am I just not playing it right, or what? Any tips on how to make this campaign more enjoyable?

You know, you could always try New Spain...