Betrayal

[Chaigidel]

what is it that is particularly baneful about this? I mean 9th circle of hell in dantes, universally remembered and reviled the great betrayers.

So what is it in particular about the human being that is so repulsed by the action?

is it a societal reaction? a personal one? why do we hate and diminish those we call betrayer?

[Broken Pope]

A betrayal is a breach of trust. There are strong societal reasons why it would be important to take somebody's word or their promise of support at face value.

Probably our revulsion at the backslider or abandoner pre-dates society - or even humanity. I expect there were evolutionary forces which made turncoat apes or primative human specimens the subjects of scorn and hatred before those concepts had even been named.

Question answered. This thread can now be closed before it turns into another free-will / determinism bunfight.

[Chaigidel]

I agree completely; I believe it to be far more base than societal considerations; I would say betrayal speaks to us on a biological level; something inside us steels against the betrayer, allowing us to consider them less than worthy of equal respect.-- and preprogrammed rejection; or it could be more along the lines of just trust and society, but I feel it goes deeper than that.

[Desperado †]

Then whyhave certain humans developed the trait of betrayel? Is it like the kindness trait - I would die in the place of two brothers or eight cousins (because chances one of the two brothers has your gene and thus it lives on), and goes in circles. E.g; a rich person might have less kindness but as his wealth declines with his ancestors and they need others more there trait of kindness is higher through natural selection because they are more likely to live because others will be kind back? Or is it just plain random?

[Chaigidel]

good question, perhaps betrayal is a legitimate function of the organism, in order to bring about diversity-- so to speak how other males are pushed out of packs, its about dominance but it also serves the function of spreading the genetic profile around( the males have to go find other groups to be a part of) -- this was also likely in early humans, family clans would need some division so that resources wouldnt be too stretched perhaps.

[Desperado †]

good question, perhaps betrayal is a legitimate function of the organism, in order to bring about diversity-- so to speak how other males are pushed out of packs, its about dominance but it also serves the function of spreading the genetic profile around( the males have to go find other groups to be a part of) -- this was also likely in early humans, family clans would need some division so that resources wouldnt be too stretched perhaps.

You are brainy! I'd never of thought of that...

[Dayman]

You are brainy! I'd never of thought of that...

He's a bit too brainy

[The Colonel]

He's a bit too brainy

Chaig, what do you do in your free time? i can probably imagine you floating in mid-air thinking about all the things of the universe.

[chriscase]

Betrayal goes against affiliative pair bonding, which not only forms some of our most basic social constructs, but is arguably central to the evolution of our species. I'm sure there are other violations that evoke similarly primal reactions, but I doubt there are any more powerful.

[gambit]

I would say the reasons for betrayal are self preservation, greed and dominance.

Two very natural traits and one very human.

[Chaigidel]

well I would agree it has something to do with greed; but not always; often to do with self preservation I would say the most even, would be self preservation.

it reminds us all how little those close to us can be trusted; and by extension the reason I think the whole concept is reviled and brings hatred to the mind; because betrayers remind us that people can do something at anytime; completely contrary to what we have come to expect.

[MaximiIian]

what is it that is particularly baneful about this...So what is it in particular about the human being that is so repulsed by the action...is it a societal reaction? a personal one? why do we hate and diminish those we call betrayer?

As BP said, it is a breach of trust. Trust is what holds society, families, friendships, indeed all of humanity, together. Without trust, there could be no coherent structure around which our species could thrive. So, naturally, our brains have developed to recognize that breach of trust and discourage and disdain it almost universally. Early on, we evolved a sense of altruism to ensure our collective prosperity as a species.

The reason betrayal developed in the first place is likely, as Gambit pointed out, human nature also has a selfish side aimed purely for self-benefit. While we all have a selfish side, we also have a selfless side; a part of our minds that is altruistic.
What makes us what we are is that we balance these two into a healthy function.

[Ummon]

If I am a betrayer (of trust, couple bonding, etc.) my success rests in avoiding detection.

Considering that everyone has betrayed and has been betrayed in time, this simple asimmetry makes it so that those who are betrayed can team against ackowledged betrayers, even if they are betrayers themselves in other contexts, because the success of betrayal rests in secrecy, and faithfulness has no such qualms.

Said this, betrayal is inherently immoral.

[Thanatos]

Betrayal is bad? Ha. Depends on who's being betrayed, and why you're betraying him.

[Ummon]

Generally, there is never really need to use evil to fight evil. Using evil to fight evil is an invention of evil people.

[gambit]

Would you use evil to defend good?

[Exarch]

my ex g/f betrayed me
i hope to see her in the 9th circle of hell

[Chaigidel]

Its true I actually do float around contemplating things -- sometimes I also poop icecream.

but srsly I sell propane, work on my house and prowl the internet for people who can make me feel stupid

[The Colonel]

you sell propane? ITS HANK HILL! who knew a texas redneck could be so smart? (im texan, so i can say this) . All i know about betrayl is that i hate it, and you should do the best not to do it.

[Chaigidel]

TN redneck here buddy ; I dont mess with texas.