Lopsided victories?

[sparty]

How lopsided should my victories be?

I keep finding myself winning, but the victories hardly seem remarkable as I lose as many men as I end up killing. Is this normal? Where should I be shooting for a "decent" victory as opposed to a total rout?

[Strom]

How lopsided should my victories be?

I keep finding myself winning, but the victories hardly seem remarkable as I lose as many men as I end up killing. Is this normal? Where should I be shooting for a "decent" victory as opposed to a total rout?

It depends on difficulty level and relative army compositions. For example if you go up against someone with a lot of cavalry and you have a lot of non-spear infantry then you'll do extremely well to come out even in the casualty count even if you win.

Generally speaking if you are winning battles but your armies are comparable and your casualty levels are about equal to those of your opponents then you probably aren't bringing enough cavalry to the field (to break units from the flank/rear and chase them down) or flanking well. However it does vary from faction to faction...

If you're playing the Norse then you can use a dismounted huscarl and flaming arrow combination to rout the enemy before they can do too much damage to you, then roll up the enemy line. If you're playing the end-game Welsh you can hold the line with excellent spear men and stakes, weaken the enemy with arrows, then envelope and destroy. As the Irish your pistol wielding cavalry can ride behind the enemy and ruin their morale...

[Xamt]

even casualties victories are generally victories that both sides have comparatively equal quality and quantity troops and just charge eachother head on, meet in the middle and hack at eachother.

if you want to have more convincing victrories/complete enemy routs you need to vary your strategy a bit, but that largely depends on the faction, style you play.

the most common strategy to get the enemy to rout is to meet his forces with yours, and while they fight get a unit or two of cavalry behind his lines and charge his weaker units from behind. Once they start running (which should be soon) have your cavalry regroup and charge the next unit, then the next and the next till they all rout.

other strategies vary in complexity and execution but the outcome should be the same... if you have a specific faction in mind, or if your enemy is a specific faction i could give more specific advice, but i'm sure you will find a lot of stuff in these forums about faction-specific tactics

[Zearth]

It doesnt really matter. A victory is a victory if you are alive and the enemy chopped up.

[Jackster]

Have a high Dread General helps with routing your enemy.

[sparty]

I tried to get too "cute" in a quick battle by dividing up my army to see if I could effectively feint an attack with one group to get their lines out of whack.

That didn't work...

The enemy just went straight at me before I could get my army positioned properly and then when I tried to capitalize on it my smaller army group routed just as my other group got there...so the enemy wasn't really distracted at all.

I'll mess around in the battle plans area and see what I can do. Thanks for the feedback everyone!

[Gornard]

If you try meeting like with like alot, you'll find you'll make considerable loses even if it does end in victory.

Try the following:
1, Use archers and artillary to soften the enemy up for as long as they will sit and take it. Use your cavalry to charge and rout enemy archers if they are seperate from the main army. This is usually called the skirmish phase.

2, Keep your cavalry away from the front of spear men, heavy cavalry may win if you get a good charge but they will also lose alot of men. Generally i like to keep my cavalry back and on one or two flanks.

3, You may find you want to take out the enemy cavalry with your own, and if you out classed them or outnumber them this can be worthwhile. But when cavalry are stationary their worth decreases greatly, get the cavalry to atack your spearmen and move your other infantry of the line or avalaible cavalry to close around them, they will most likely rout even if they are still winning and your infantry won't lose much.

4,Often in field battles your two lines of infantry will meet. If you have dismounted knights you may find yourself gaining a quick advantage, but even if you don't this is the perfect time for your cavalry to enter the real fight, use their speed to maneuver them round to the back or side and charge. The spears and sheilds etc. will be facing the other way in a protracted battle, your cavalry will charge into them causing much damage and a quick rout. By this stage msot the enemy will be routing, you'll pretty much just be using your cavalry from here, charging any remaining unit making them rout immediatly. Then just chase them down for maximum effect.

remember as soon as a unit routs they will start losing men to whatever they were engaged with and whatever units they retreat through, this is much more safe and efficient for your men.

Of course you need a good mix of spears, heavy infantry, cavalry (mainly heavy with some light) and a few archers/arty.

[sparty]

So it sounds like everyone thinks quite highly of cavalry as the tool to help exploit enemy armies. Makes sense. I will play around with this and see what I can do.

Thank you.

[Gornard]

Well your cavalry can also be your greatest source of loses too. Think of them as your wild card (at least i do) your infantry will do the grunt work and engage the enemy directly, flanking wherever possible, but mostly they are more limited in their options. Your cavalry are there to move around and turn the tide of battle in your favour and deal with eventualities.

[sparty]

I played the SS 1.6 campaign from 1081 until 1198 last night so I had plenty of time to battle.

I found that with smaller battles I feel like I'm definitely more in control and can use the cavalry well, but as soon as there are hundreds and hundreds of troops I'm having a harder time picking where to send cavalry.

Do I send them in to mop up so I can more quickly re-purpose infantry to other fights?

Do I send them to engage a group that hasn't quite made it to the front lines to hopefully rout them before they get there?

Obviously, a lot depends on the battle, situation, and positioning, but I think it may be something you just have to get a feel for. I have definitely appreciated the tips so far. If I could give Rep I definitely would!

[Xamt]

like u said it largely depends on the situation, but here's what i normally do

Do I send them in to mop up so I can more quickly re-purpose infantry to other fights?

use only light cavalry or heavily depleted units (under 1/2 or even 1/3 of their original numbers) since your other heavy cavalry can go about the battlefield to break more enemy units ... in case you only have a few cavalry units and cant divide them i would recommend only chasing elite enemy troops, or those that hurt you the most (i.e. dont chase spear militias, but definitely chase zweihanders or armored sergeants etc)

Do I send them to engage a group that hasn't quite made it to the front lines to hopefully rout them before they get there?

again, i use mostly light cavalry to engage archers or war machines, when it comes to infantry i prefer a charge in the flank or rear... but in the rare occasion that i do charge an enemy unit before it reaches the fight it will be a unit that can do a lot of potential damage when it gets there (shock infantry usually with 2h weapons, or maybe the occasional cleric that raises morale - teutonic order campaign)... but still i would charge, withdraw and charge again till they rout and i wouldnt leave my cavalry there to fight it out until they rout

two things to note about cavalry are:
1) they excel at charging troops (cause high casualties too fast)
2) if they stick around in prolonged fights they will get eventually swarmed and cut down (especially true if your enemy has spearmen or ap units)

so your basic cavalry tactic is to charge (check the enemy morale, if its wavering consider leaving your men for a few seconds to see if the enemy routs), withdraw, charge again.... do it till your enemy routs, or has low enough numbers not to be a threat anymore

I have definitely appreciated the tips so far. If I could give Rep I definitely would!

you can give rep once you reach 50 posts

[Robo1992]

I played the SS 1.6 campaign from 1081 until 1198 last night so I had plenty of time to battle.

I found that with smaller battles I feel like I'm definitely more in control and can use the cavalry well, but as soon as there are hundreds and hundreds of troops I'm having a harder time picking where to send cavalry.

Do I send them in to mop up so I can more quickly re-purpose infantry to other fights?

Do I send them to engage a group that hasn't quite made it to the front lines to hopefully rout them before they get there?

Obviously, a lot depends on the battle, situation, and positioning, but I think it may be something you just have to get a feel for. I have definitely appreciated the tips so far. If I could give Rep I definitely would!

Yeah you should aim for at least 4 units of heavy cavalry in tour armies, I do and whilst my spear men are holding the line my cavalry chop down there cavalry and then go for the rear. I usually get them to rout the center and left first (don't know why the left:hmmm: but it seems to work).

[mikeon]

I try and separate a group or two from the enemy main body and lure them away with a unit. Then attack and cavalry charge.

When I use a mainly infantry army, I put up at least two lines, front line will be my pawns and cheap troops to soak up the enemy's frontline infantry. These pawns are there to take the damage and lower the stamina of the enemy troops. My cavalry, usually horse archers will distract their cavalry and have them chase my horse archers while my other cavalry will have already wiped out the enemy skirmishers who always run out ahead of the main body.

While my pawns are fighting with the frontline, I have my second line of infantry or my heavy duty infantry manuever around the flanks to the sides or behind the enemy. Usually just by moving them to the sides the moral of the enemy units on the outer edge waver and sometimes rout. Otherwise I have my shock troops rush into the back of the enemy.

I also usually have some other infantry ready to go in and relieve the pawns with fresh troops in cause some of my pawns get wiped out or rout.

[Gornard]

Patience is the key, only use your cavalry early if you see a weak unit such as archers or artilalry isolated from the bunch. If you have alot of heavy cavalry then they can be used to break up enemy vangaurd formations from the flanks while the first line have already started charging towards your lines. This is an alternative to simply using them to support your infantry. Just remember that like all untis your cavalry will be slow to respond, so make sure you put them in a situation that they can withdraw from if it doesn't go their way.
It really depends on the situation sometimes you will have a few groups of cavalry charging round a disorderd battlefield trouble shooting minor battles, sometimes you will be evenly employing the charge repeat policy.

The most annoying situation is chasing horse archers around the battle field and it's a waste of heavy cavalry. You can either use the exploit where you make your cavalry move ahead of the enemy rather then targeting directly (this can cause a delay in skirmish response) or make them target a fast moving unit and draw them into the battle.

Try and micromanage cavalry as much as possible i.e. put them into as small a group as you cna effectivly manage. Often charging 4 groups of HCs into one group of infantry can put the dear of god into them, but most of them won't get into the fight, try moving the other groups around the target.

And lastly in seige battles the enemy is unroutable in the town sqaure so try your best to engage them with infantry and take a flank with the cavalry for minimal casualties.

[shane2008]

Cavalry are the one unit type which you almost definitely need to have to win. and don't have too many light cavalry. i can definitely attest that cavalry can pull you through some pretty tough encounters. when it comes to timing you want to use them in the rear of an enemy once they are anchored down in battle. i tend to engage the enemy with my infantry effectively stopping them from turning around to fight. if i only have four or less units i charge the left and right side of the of the enemy rear. with all of the flanks deserting them the center will usually collapse and flee with them. you basically need to always have significant cavalry supremacy. you'll generally win battles even if your outnumbered 2 to1 and maybe even 3 to 1 if you use them just right

[DiegoFox]

You should use lots of cavalry to flank and annihilate and lower morale men fast and repeat.