Bribe Mechanics?

[MAurelius11]

First off, I don't think this is anything specific to BC, but since that's what I'm playing I figured here was the best place to ask.

I read a post awhile back around here where someone mentioned to avoid war they simply bought up an opponent's settlements. I have been trying this but the costs involved seem insane. The original post said they were getting settlements for 50K. I, for example, am trying to bribe Burkhara (as the Ghaznavids, there are four superpowers left, the Ayubbids, Abbasids, Kwarezm, and I) and I have had up to 320,000 and they reject me, and this is with a 6 skill diplomart (now 5, since their refusal has hit him). Considering the yearly output of a GOOD city is 5000 or so, that seems an outrageous sum to be rejected. I'm swimming in money, but I don't want to get my corruption out of control. Is there a way to estimate what a bribe is going to cost? Most of the Kwarezm settlements are Fortresses and Large Cities and when I tried Burkhara it was only guarded by one or two regular troops, no family members.

Any info on bribe mechanics would be most appreciated!

[Kavhan Isbul]

I am not quite sure what you are refering to when you write "bribe a settlement". A successful bribe would not only give you the settlement, but the army inside and the commanding general, if any, and would start a war with the faction, to which it belongs. I personally find the bribes in M2TW to be very ineffective, as they are expensive and the approached parties rarely agree. This is full contrast with RTW, where you could really bribe your way to victory. To me, CA had gotten it right in MTW, where bribing was hard, but possible and to me felt realistic.
As far as getting settlements, you do not have to bribe though, you can simply get them in an agreement. You need to select "give settlement" from the menu "Make a demand" and then you have to offer something in exchange, such as a regular tribute or single payment. Or it could simply be "accept or we will attack", although the AI rarely accepts in such cases. To succeed, two things are necessary - good reputation and good relations with the faction, whose settlement you are after. If your reputation is unreliable or worse, the AI is very likely to turn the proposal down. Same if your relations with the AI faction are poor or worse. Also, AI factions with plenty of settlements are more likely to agree to part with one of them, than factions with only a few settlements.
I have found myself able to get settlements from the AI for as little as 1,000 denarii per turn for 10 turns, and in a few cases even less than that, as long as I maintain my reputation trustworthy and my relations good.

[MAurelius11]

I see. So I've been doing it wrong. I send a diplomat to the town and select 'bribe'. This has NOT led to war, but it has dropped my rep with the faction.

Rep itself doesn't make sense to me though. I had a "very trustworthy" rep or something like that and I never attacked anyone who didn't attack me first. I always occupied except at the end of the Rajput campaign when they were smoking me, even though I had three times the territories, with multiple full stacks of elephants, K nobles and K warriors and Ghandarva axemen. I got so frustrated I led a William T. Sherman terror campaign across their hinterlands, capturing in one turn, sacking, and destroying all buildings. That likely was the only way I was able to win the war.

Now I'm "dubious" or something, and I don't feel that's warranted, as the Rajput attacked me first, and even now I am allied faithfully with Sindh, and they only have three territories.

Is there a document anywhere that discusses rep mechanics?

By the way thanks for answering...I was beginning to think no one would

[Bull]

I see. So I've been doing it wrong. I send a diplomat to the town and select 'bribe'. This has NOT led to war, but it has dropped my rep with the faction.

Rep itself doesn't make sense to me though. I had a "very trustworthy" rep or something like that and I never attacked anyone who didn't attack me first. I always occupied except at the end of the Rajput campaign when they were smoking me, even though I had three times the territories, with multiple full stacks of elephants, K nobles and K warriors and Ghandarva axemen. I got so frustrated I led a William T. Sherman terror campaign across their hinterlands, capturing in one turn, sacking, and destroying all buildings. That likely was the only way I was able to win the war.

Now I'm "dubious" or something, and I don't feel that's warranted, as the Rajput attacked me first, and even now I am allied faithfully with Sindh, and they only have three territories.

Is there a document anywhere that discusses rep mechanics?

By the way thanks for answering...I was beginning to think no one would

There's a mechanics file in the data folder, the name of which escapes me, that details the workings of the international reputation.

Sacking, slaughtering of populations, and attacking a neutral country drops your reputation faster than recent stock market dives. On the otherhand, releasing prisoners and occupying only improves your rep slightly. So the trick is to almost never sack unless it's worth it (read Bagdad, Constantinople), and always release your prisoners (I always do, but only one at a time).

If you are dubious than that's still salvagable. What I do as Seljuks is to find small enemy armeis to attack, kill off everyone, then capture the last one or two soldiers. That way, you can release prisoners without fearing that they'll be back with a vengeance, and you still get your + rep. Do that 10, 20 times and you should be nearly trustworthy.

PS: If unfortunately you've captured large numbers of prisoners, ransom them. It is rep-neutral and if your enemy agrees, at least you are reimbursed for your troubles. If they did not, then it's their loss and your rep remains intact.

[DJ_JasonX]

Is there a document anywhere that discusses rep mechanics?

hi,
you might want to check this thread at the org for a discussion of vanilla reputation. cheers

[oou420]

It's not worth the trouble, you're never gonna have enough to buy out their country. Just attack, have a lot of spies wandering around and get the most weakly defended cities.

[MAurelius11]

Thanks for all the help.

The war is going ok. My spies show me all Kwarezm's inner cities are barely defended, but both our frontline armies are near the point of collapse, and my economy, which was unfathomably strong in peacetime, is now completely flatlined (seems unrealistic, but whatever). Still, if I can get away alive from the next four or five full stack battles, I can pick and choose which cities I want, or go for a quick raid and crush his production capacity.

Doesn't seem right that of the main four superpowers left, the other three are allied (Kypchak, Kwarezm, Abbusid).

[Thema'zandaar]

my economy, which was unfathomably strong in peacetime, is now completely flatlined (seems unrealistic, but whatever).

It Is realistic. War means no trade. Trade is a major source of income.

[MAurelius11]

I was under the impression that the majority of trade I was involved in took place between my own provinces. Is this not true? That is to say, is it better to have a long border with other powers and small overall territory, or a large territory, as far as trade is concerned.

I would assume an external war wouldn't disrupt internal trade?

[Thema'zandaar]

I was under the impression that the majority of trade I was involved in took place between my own provinces. Is this not true?

Really, that does depend on the extent of your empire. If you've got a huge empire spawning from Iconium to India, then sure your internal trade is greater. Also, the trade between cities is kind of hard to compare. However, consider this - when you export goods, you get a higher price for them.

That is to say, is it better to have a long border with other powers and small overall territory, or a large territory, as far as trade is concerned.

Ummm...there's more to the game than trade. You might not want to spread yourself too thin. But as far as trade prospects go, the more borders your empire shares with legitimate empires, the better.

I would assume an external war wouldn't disrupt internal trade?

Not unless an enemy army marches into your territory. Or a rebel army props up.

[The Noble Lord]

Hi,


So what you do when you wanna bribe the enemy setlement??
I only succeded when bribing individual generals and some rebel setlements.
I never had any success in bribing or buying the enemy faction's setlement.
What you need to do??


CHEERS

[MAurelius11]

You just send a diplomat to the enemy settlement, initiate diplomacy, and select the "bribe" option. Typically if you have enough $$$ you will get the settlement and all defending troops will disband. I assume if there are recruitable troops in the settlement or family members you will get them, too, though it will likely increase the cost.

[The Noble Lord]

You just send a diplomat to the enemy settlement, initiate diplomacy, and select the "bribe" option. Typically if you have enough $$$ you will get the settlement and all defending troops will disband. I assume if there are recruitable troops in the settlement or family members you will get them, too, though it will likely increase the cost.

Thanks a lot. Appreciated. I'll try that today.

[The Colonel]

meh, i've had to cheat one time because a rebel settlement REFUSED to give up, i cheated hmy money, and his skill, and often i would be trading anywhere from 60k to over a 100k for a settlement, and dont get me started on rebel generals, although cheaper, they are worthless as they CANT MOVE, for reasons unknown to me.

[MAurelius11]

Thanks DJ, that was very helpful! Mods like BC and Stainless Steel don't play with the overall system, right? That stuff is hardcoded?

[aduellist]

I think you're confusing two very different things here. There is a vast difference between bribing a settlement from a faction and buying a settlement from a faction. The former, bribing, will lower your standing with the target faction if it fails and start a war of if succeeds. The latter, buying, will not damage and may raise your standing with the target faction whether it succeeds or fails.

To buy a settlement, send a diplomat to the target faction. Your offer will be either a single payment or regular tribute (if you want to spread out the cash outlay). Your demand will be "give region" and select the region you want to buy. Make sure the offer is at least "balanced" before making it. A "generous" offer can improve your standing with the target faction even if they turn you down.