Danish Short Campaign Plan???

[Viking Prince]

I have been playing the Danes. The long campaign was approached by securing an alliance with HRE and seizing the Baltic ports:

King to Stockholm, Thorn, Riga, Helsinki and finally Novgorod.
Prince to Hamburg, Magdeburg, and then Stettin.
General (married to princess) to Oslo.

In other words the Baltic becomes a Danish lake and then to the rest of Europe.(usually leaving an at war status with the Russians and taking on the Poles. Builds focus on the econ in the cities and civics when unrest drops to 120%. The castles are converted except Hamurg and Thorn. With cash, new castles are simply captured for the better units.

I play a fairly chivalrous game with nearly no sackings and ending the battles when the enemy is broken and not running down the enemy units (Mongols excepted, of course). No autoresolved combat. The most chivalrous generals and land improvements build the population growth of the cities up to about 6%.

I am interested in pursuing a short campaign with the same style of play. Has anyone done this? Your victory conditions are to take out HRE. I could simply do the long campaign and eventually take on the HRE after the Mongols have been tamed, but this does not seem to be in the spirit of the short game's victory conditions.

Any ideas? Yes, I know to attack the HRE. But with what resources and which rebel provinces should be taken to provide a base? I am thinking that Stockholm and Oslo will take too long to develope. Magdeburg probably should remain a castle. The Baltic coast simply does not have the population.
The obvious other choice is Antwerp and Bruges.

Will Arhus, Antwerp, and Bruges be a large enough city economic base to take out the HRE? Hamburg and Magdeburg will remain castles and will not contribute much towards cash.

Is this plan doomed since this places the Danes in the middle of England, France, and HRE?

Thoughts, comments, and experience are all appreciated.

[townie33]

i think that if you stick with your strategy from the long campaign you should do just fine. But here is how i do it on Vanilla:

- remember that you only need 15 settlements to win
- the HRE can wait, hopefully they will be under a lot of stress from his neighbors
- get alliances with the Papal States and France, a marriage alliance is preferred

Ok so i only use my heir, prince charles, as my field general so it takes me a little longer. He goes and takes Hamburg, Stettin, and Magdeburg. Back to Hamburg and by that time you should have recruited 2 - 3 huscarls, and either 2 viking raiders or 2 scouts, and 4 longboats. From Hamburg i go to Riga, Helsinki, Stockholm, stop by Hamburg for a few more huscarls or viking raiders, and then to Oslo. By now you should have a pretty good sized kigndom but unfortunately three settlements are villages, set them to the low tax setting and forget about them for the time being. Your only castles now should be Hamburg and Helsinki, the rest cities. Also by this time you should have obtained an alliance with the papal states which will be key for the next phase.

Now bring Charles back to hamburg and recruit some huscarls and norse swordsmen, and if you have the chance norse war clerics, also dispatch a diplomat to the poles so we can buy thorn. With this army declare a crusade on Vilnius. It will fall easy. Now here come a crossroads, you can either keep Vilnius and buy thorn or just trade the settlements. I would go with the first because Vilnius will be a big troop producer for the poles in around 10 turns. Anyway, now the crusade is over and Charles can come home, for a while.

Now would be the time if you want to start a war with the HRE because i would next take Antwerp which they may or may not have. From here to Bruges. Now we have a problem 1) you will have to switch to a different general by now 2) England and France block our way. The next region i take is Caen which opens up the last phase of the campaign. If you still have an alliance with the French they may ask you for military assistance ( i couldn't believe they asked be that ) and that will help you fight the English. Take Caen fast and then Rennes if possible, if the french have it buy it. From there all you need to do is conquer England and Scotland and there you have it! That should be 15 provinces exactly, or over. That will take around 50 turns, I had all the way to rennes in under 40. Good luck and hope this helped.

[Viking Prince]

townie - how about the HRE elim victory condition

By the way - I tried your strategy in the long campaign previously. I seemed to be a little too short of cash. Do you tend to sack?

I also tried a more capitalistic approach - everyone that can be spared to Hamburg. Princess to HRE captain lurking in the woods near Hamburg. Buy Staufen for 2500fl x 3 turns. Attack Frankfurt after Hamburg falls. Became HRE vassal?!?? Did not expect this. Proceed to Magdeburg. Split into two stacks with some reinforcements go on to Stettin and Breslau (all 3 were Polish). I need to find some way to end this Polish nonsense and prepare to end my vassalage with HRE with an attack on Nuremburg or Prague. Maybe take Thorn (also Polish) for a castle defense on my eastern frontier. If I can only end this Polish problem by marching to Kiev, this is not a good way to proceed on the Short Campaign.

[townie33]

if you want to en the campaign within 20 then use Hamburg to build raiders and huscarls and beat the HRE to a pulp. The way i do it elongates the game but you still have an opportunity to beat the HRE.

And no I don't sack, i dont produce units like crazy either, only enough. The crusade helps a lot with the cash problems but Arruhs and Magdeburg alone held up my economy, the other cities helped too but they were the big money makers.

Eliminating the HRE i feel gets easier with time, eventually they will get excom, so you crusade against Fankfurt, then take Nuremburg too, and then the HRE is totally open.

Sorry if it's a little confusing, if you want i can go through it step by step with pictures from the game.

[Viking Prince]

Got it. Thanks. I will activate my sharp penciled accountant and see how it works. Without sacking - it should fit my style of play.

[Mithrane]

I have found in my 2 most recent campaigns (both long Danish) that the Danes have a supreme position in regards to options of rebel provinces, and the early troops to do it right. (Pardon my spelling, I'm not looking at the map and memory is really bad on names)

Magdeburg/Hamburg is obvious. This is your southern castle and general rallying point for troops headed in any direction. This is your hub. Build it up. You need at least Norse Archers, Huscarls, and Mounted Huscarls from here. For longer games, make this your infantry focused home, and aim for Swordsmith's Guild.

Antwerp/Bruges are perfectly situated for you. Especially in short games, you gain a lot from sending a large amount of your force to capture these cities. These plus Arhus should be more than enough money for a quick victory.

Your next options are deciding which you want to be at war with, Russia, Poland, or France. I suggest Poland as it allows for good strategic locations, relatively easy fights, and keeps your forces moving in the same direction. If you can, there is a castle south of Antwerp which will server you will as western defense. Take that so long as it doesn't cost you fighting the French. Try to keep that flank friendly as there is too far to travel and little to gain in that direction once you get those three provinces.

You should now have a dedicated force pushing towards or even into HRE territory. Remember that this is your primary objective in the short game. Provinces can be gotten cheap and easy after, but these guys need to die. If you have secured your western flank, you should now have 2 main offensive armies, and 1 roaming offensive/reinforcement army. One should be pushing into HRE, and the other should be shadowing it in the Polish region. Your main attack line is going to be to push through the HRE/Polish regions to the South/South-East. Your 3rd army is there to act as a counter attack army to anything that is hiding in the woods.

Speaking of woods, use them. This is another big reason to focus on the Polish side. There are tons of places to hide. Speed is important, yes, but if you can keep your amy hidden, and take only 2-3 more turns to make an attack, you will usually find it was worth it.

By now, your western flank is either secure, or in a massive mess. If it is being fought over, you are probably at war with France and England. You must weigh the risk/reward for trying to hold onto that region. It is great for money, but not your main front, and thus a distraction in what is supposed to be a fast paced game.

By this time, you should have pushed most way through Poland and HRE. You will now have access to good mining economy, and about to be ready to push on towards the Italians. If this is the case, and your western front is too much of a distraction, look into gifting those cities (and the problems associated with them) as peace offerings. If the western front is secure enough, then you are near your goal.

You will need 3 main armies in the south, a good army to finish off Poland, and a decent army to go gather Russian/Scandinavian rebel provinces.

Kill off Poland quick, if you can, and send that army to join the 3 others pushing into Italy. HRE should be almost dead. Take a few Russian provinces and then boat to Oslo etc, and make the final push to the last remaining HRE city (one in Italy) and you should have your victory conditions.

Key to this is to play like the vikings, and to their strengths. Even a standard Castle is enough to field all the troops you need minus Norse Archers, and perhaps Mounted Huscarls. In a short game, forget chivalry. Crusades are nice if you can call them, but you're all about speed. Sack as you go. Don't let armies escape. You can't afford protracted wars. Keep pushing. Your reinforcements need to be constant. You need numbers, not exp. Your troops are superior to theirs for quite a while. Let that and numbers be your key to victory.

In my 2 long campaigns as the Danes, I have prefered to secure my southern border by allying with HRE and keeping good relations with them and the Pope. I have played the chivalry game as it plays very well to infantry based nations (Troops which are extremely hard to rout and cause fear make for solid attack forces). I expand first into France, and then Poland. The reason being that if you let them get their high-cavalry armies, you will be mowed down. I then surround HRE and position to take them out in 1 turn. I control the pope via cardinals. I call the crusades. I systematically remove other Catholic nations so as to be the only one left, thus free control of the pope.

In short campaigns, though, I really try to focus on the rush mentality. I have a goal. A quick goal. I MUST complete it. If it is not directly linked to getting me that goal, I ignore it. If I can hold off an enemy instead of actually fighting them, I do. If I had time, I prefer to destroy everything an enemy had if they attacked me. But, I don't.

The Danes are supremely positioned to quickly finish their short campaign. They are the strongest starting position and army, in my opinion, with many options depending on how you want to play.

[townie33]

just a side not, if you don't go all the way down to the english channel and take caen you will be in trouble in the area around Antwerp and Bruges. Since the closest castle is fairy far away, like three to four turns, you will need to garrison at least six units in each city out of protection from france, england, HRE, and scotland. So f you wanted to turn Antwerp into a castle! it can be done and it wont hurt your economy as bad as you would think. Plus Antwerp has so much unrest that you almost need to exterminate the city when you capture it. As a castle it would also make a great home base for operations in england.

[Viking Prince]

Another experiment:

Taking the princess into negotiations with HRE you can purchase:

Staufen for 2350fl x2 turns or
Nuremburg for 3200fl x2 turns


What do you think for values?

On thing -- Staufen has another value -- HRE does not expand towards France or Milan though the rebels or towards the low country rebels. This may mean a much stronger France and Milan later in the game, for what this is worth. After 25 turns, HRE has not expanded from the starting position (minus the sold Staufen). Conclusion: Staufen purchase can be a good start towards eliminating the HRE.

I do not know whether Nuremburg is worth it. 6400fl buys quite a bit this early in the game.