Overpowered Ghorid starting stacks

[anaztazioch]

This was prolly noted for BC 1.5, but incase it was forgotten.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well its my 4th aproach to Sindhi campaign VH/H
Its 4th time i see Ghorids sieging Delhi and just capture it by waiting till they surrender/make desperate break siege.
Its 4th time i see Ghorid stack attacking my Cities... I have not expanded beyond starting 2 cities + Kolache and Calula (for Ivory money).
What do they throw at me ? At 1st it was simple ghorid fanatic mercenary full stack with... 2 senior ghulams... Ok senior ghulams early ok can understand.
Coped with that stack nicelly (thats 1000-1000 in casulties, but they routed as they had no commander and ghorid fanatics was general units).
But next stack was the one that captured Delhi. Family member, 2 ROYAL ghulams (lancers, freaking A-Bomb for early Sindhi), 6 ghulams in total (junior, but had 1 or 2 senior), rest was khara-khitai horse archers (chain mailed ones). How can My Sindhi defend against it with just 3 sammat, 2 jagdir lancers, and remaining super weak light infantry + some mercenaries i barelly have money to afford for ???

I really dont like seing Ghorid starting with 2 royal ghulams, 2-4 senior shulams, 6+ junior ghulams, 20 khara-khitais... + what he gets for dificualty level + money script constant recruit, + what he has lost conquering Delhi.

I dont have simmilar problem Ghaznivids (although bastards do attack me once he gets 2 bordering sets with me).

If their super army is made to take Delhi quiete early in game, shouldnt it be infantry not royalities ?


1.05 with all available patches. No submods/personal modifications.

[Miraj]

I agree their starting stack could be toned down.

However, that uber stackage is supposed to be BC's historical simulation of the Ghorid invasion of India. They knocked out Sindh within a few months or less in real history... so I was just trying to make them the dreadful invaders they were.

Don't hate me plz.

[anaztazioch]

I know thats what you wanted to achive, but it really kills gameplay for Sindh. Mybe if Sindhi were able to recruit more often ? I allways convert starting city into castle to get more units/turn and still its not enough to sign peace with Ghorids (taking that 10 turns is enough for them to put me down to calula only...) Sindh lands has only 2 castles. 1 is Thatta, the other is bordering with Delhi. Their AOR doesnt include that "q" castle in southern Afghan hills.

If Rajputs would have sammat spearmans (the strongest ones in Sindhi, love these guys really fit Indian culture IMO) and their Kashtriya nobles wouldnt have such "washed" colors (should learn how to dye clothes from Jagdirs, Daylamies and Khwarez lancers), i would dump Sindhi long ago :p
And, can something be done about Rajputs not going below 0 gold in tresury right from the start ? 1400/turn with mere 400 from castle is not wealthy.

[TheG]

Hi!

I'm currently playing Sindh on VH/VH. Try 2 get an alliance with the Ghorids ASAP. I managed that and they are good allies. Then you can destroy the Ghaznis together.
Otherwise Sindh is very difficult and I'm just loving it. Had a big war with Ghaznis, Oman and Solankis. Managed 2 get 2-3 territories and then ceasefire.
Yay

[Miraj]

Cool stuff.

Yes, indeed. It's important to use the Muslim bro-loving to your advantage and ally with the Ghorids as soon as possible.

[gobbothegreen]

Or you can give loads of money to the chauans with add_money aztecs, 20000
a few times repeated.


i tried it in a ghorid campaign so when i tried to take delhi i had to face 3 stacks of defenders and the numbers just increased.
But i got them after some turns of using the ghorids main strenght mass recruiting ghaziz so i had 6 full stacks against them.(i don´t wanna say how many ghaziz i lost that day)

[anaztazioch]

Wow, by the time i get informats Ghazni will be at my borders refusing to ally with me. After some time its war with Ghazni, and since im killing trade friends of Ghorids they get pissed, gets near me and breaks alliance about the same moment Omani fleet blocks my ports...
Have I mentioned that my hier rebelled with some weak army, my leader died in battle and my hier... lets say that his best stat is authority at 1... He also died in battle... If not for constant adopting and man of honors i would lose my family.

but I managed to use the AI. I attacked with small merc army deep inside Ghorids territory taking 2 settlement protected by 3 units at best. Diplomat gave them back for peace alliance and worldmap. I used same tactic and took Herat and gave it to Kwarezm in exchange for war vs Ghazni.
Now its Omani i must deal and Rajputs who find war at Lahore with Ghorids not enough... (Turks and Georgia no longer exist... crazy campaign just got 1200, not a single faction without a war...)

[TheG]

Ghazni are a pain in the ***. Attacked me straight when I took the rebel city to the west (in the mountains). I had really big problems with them. Lost 1 faction leader and 2 heirs in battles and had ghazni stacks running around Sindh. And they have much better units than Sindh at start. When I finally managed 2 push them back their allies Oman declared war on me also. A good thing Kwarezims were punishing the Omanis so they couldn't pose a serious threat. 2 battles with Oman, 2 cities taken and ceasefire. Then it was time 2 punish Ghazni together with Gorids. They are no more now (1215)

Then I took a rebel city which name I don't remember (between Lahore and Delhi, rebelled from Ghorids) I 2 turns I have 5 stacks of Solankis coming my way. :hmmm: Really tough fights with 5 sieges (all won ). Then I send my faction leader and a full stack with ships and took 2 cities and Solankis accepted ceasefire. And finally there is some peace. Can't wait 2 come home and play again. Really fun and hard campaign with Sindh. Just loving it!

[Kavhan Isbul]

I have never played with Sindh, sounds lijke a fun challenge.
But I have started a campaign with the Ghorids and I got bored really quickly, because they are so overpowered, I did not find it fun to play with them. It is not just the stacks, because they get destroyed sooner or later, but the combination of a large king's purse and cheap infantry, available only with a small masjid. The way things are set up, spears or no spears, the Ghorids are set up to take over India in the first few years, and then once their back is secure, start pusing west until victory is achieved.
I agree that they should be toned down a bit for balance purposes.

[Miraj]

I have never played with Sindh, sounds lijke a fun challenge.
But I have started a campaign with the Ghorids and I got bored really quickly, because they are so overpowered, I did not find it fun to play with them. It is not just the stacks, because they get destroyed sooner or later, but the combination of a large king's purse and cheap infantry, available only with a small masjid. The way things are set up, spears or no spears, the Ghorids are set up to take over India in the first few years, and then once their back is secure, start pusing west until victory is achieved.
I agree that they should be toned down a bit for balance purposes.

Well, when we get around to 2.0 and adding in emerging Delhi rebellion, they will be majorly sidelined.

Also in 1.5 the northern rajputs will become distinct and be much stronger - taking over India as the Ghorids will become a genuine challenge and hardly inevitable.