Extended Cultures Discussion

[Shadow_LT]

Didn't praetors lead armies ? And I wouldn't send him to lead an invasion force, he would lead a "support" stack.

[Zarax]

Praetors led smaller armies and mostly garrison forces, if overseas movement is your problem I may put back the fleet boarding capability but you'll have to show me how much it's worth from a RP side to recruit a general instead of using a less skilled FM for that.

[Shadow_LT]

That inability to board ships also blocks a possibility to move your good governor with unrest reducing traits to a recently conquered city, who has a unrest problem. And with bigger bodyguard(give them 30-40 men that's enough) they would have a slightly better chance to defend that town if AI decides to retake that town(it's an unlikely scenario, but it can happen)

[Zarax]

Unrest problems will be taken care of by different mechanics in the next major build, governors are only part of the solution.
A bigger bodyguard would mean a significantly raised upkeep as well, there are no free meals in XC so beware of what you're asking for .

Again, I suggest you open a thread for this and make a detailed proposal on what the purpose of local governors should be in your opinion.

[Shadow_LT]

It's not all about unrest. Squalor, building time reducing and other traits also can help a recently conquered town(I know that a FM can do that too, but why move him from the capital or other important city). I don't mind the higher upkeep as those governors probably would be used from mid-late campaign, money wouldn't be a problem at that point.

[Zarax]

Err, governors are ideal in early campaign when you need to squeeze extra money from your settlements and your FMs in the battlefield, while their small but powerful bodyguard can support your garrison against levy armies.
Later in game they are a ruler policy amplifier, which can be very good if you nurtured your FL or very bad if he's got corruption and unrest traits.

By mid-late game unrest is the only real problem and FMs should be your general pool and plentiful enough to do most tasks.
You should try a seleucid (or gaul) campaign to see their true potential, beware that depending on your ruler they can be a double edge weapon.

[Shadow_LT]

Why naked fanatics have such a high attack and low price ? They the same amount of men as chosen swordsmen, but are twice as cheap and have 6 more morale and attack. I know that they are supposed to be on drugs or something like that, which justifies their morale and def skill, but I doubt that they were killing machines or were widely available.

[Zarax]

They are still less lethal than EB, although they are still on balancing phase.
Are they 1 or 2 turns recruitment in your release?

[Shadow_LT]

1 turn. In EB they are OP because they have 2HP(and I have heard that in EB II they will have 1 HP), but their attack is equal with Solduros attack and they are one of the most expensive celtic units.
Also, why do have 2 turn recruitment for high tier units, I think their costs limit their spamming enough.
Finally, is it possible for a faction to have a different policy and if it is possible how do I change it ?

[Zarax]

Which high tier unit does have 2 turns? IIRC aside from druids and bersekers (plus now gaesatae and spartans) no other unit should have 2 turn recruitment.

What do you mean by policy?

[Publius Quirinus]

I think he meant like "Thassalocratic Policy" or something.

I tried the converter, it works, thanks. =]

In my Bosphoran campaign I keep getting adoptees and governors from Megapolis (7 out of 12 characters at last count), did that city historically have close ties with the Bosphoran Greeks, or is it a bug?

[Zarax]

Adoptees and governors are pretty random in selection, you just got some weird coincidence.
Also, keep in mind that you're just playing GCS in a different spot on the map so their traits won't be different.

EDIT:

Shadow, what do you think about those stats for gaesatae?

type barb naked fanatics
dictionary barb_naked_fanatics ; Gaesatae
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Light_1
soldier barb_naked_fanatics, 50, 0, 1.8, 0.5
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, very_hardy, warcry, can_swim
formation 1, 1, 2, 2, 5, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 9, 4, javelin, 46, 6, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 25 ,1.0 ; Ranged
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown ap
stat_sec 13, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 25 ,0.425 ; long sword, barbarian, fanatic
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 0, 16, 4, flesh ; unarmoured, thureos, barbarian
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 3
stat_ground 2, -2, 3, 2
stat_mental 22, impetuous, untrained ; fanatic
stat_charge_dist 40 ; Prec
stat_fire_delay 5000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1350, 900, 60, 120, 850
ownership romans_brutii, slavs, slave

[Shadow_LT]

Triarii has 2 turn recruitment. Yes, I meant those policies(Thalassocratic Policy, Stratocratic Policy), are they tied to faction or a governor ?

They look good, high attack, but not too high, it's an expensive, boosted version of regular swordsmen. They will be replaced by heavy swordsmen at Marian reforms, right ?

Also, this line in EDU "thrown ap" means that javelins are not AP, right ?

[Zarax]

Will check it, IIRC triarii are 1 turn in the latest build.
The policies are usually linked to what has been built in the city where the governor IIRC, Suppanut can explain better than me.
Gaesatae are replaced post marius by the heavy swordsmen that while not looking as glamorous in attack are much more survivable than their fanatic colleagues as shown in places like Telamon.

Also, thrown AP means that javelins are AP.

[Shadow_LT]

Why they are AP ? They are OP. 1 unit of levy hoplite to hold spartans, while 2 units of peltasts go around the back and slaughter them with attack 7 AP javelins(they have 8 of them). 1629 denari worth units easily kills 3600 denari worth unit. Remove AP and give them 1 bonus attack for light javelins and 2 for heavy ones. That should balance them.

Hoplites like Athenians and syracusians have also 2 turn recruitment. Spartans have 3 turn recruitment.

Gamma v2 version BI.exe no senate.

[Zarax]

Tell that to the Spartans that faced Iphicrates, I'm sure they will agree that javelins are OP too

Seriously talking, javelins were the bane of unsupported hoplites and one of the reasons while thracians were rightfully feared.
While them being AP may seem OP remember that they have to get pretty close to throw their missiles and they shouldn't be a problem if you remembered to bring your own skirmishers.

BTW, missiles have been redesigned so in the next version expect some headaches if you try using javelineers and western archers behind your battle line. Historically they always fought in front of the line for a specific reason and they are not supposed to be human mortars.

The city specific hoplites are multi turn because they were supposed to be coming from a pretty restricted pool of manpower and are mostly in game because of the coolness factor rather than being especially useful.

Anyway, stay tuned, I'll release a test exe with a few changes tonight.

[Shadow_LT]

Then at least reduce their number to 5-6 for light peltasts and 2-4 for heavy ones and infantry with javelins , they will have a bit less fire power then. And I doubt that troops like thureophoroi could carry 6 javelins and a shield in one hand.

[Zarax]

They did have a quiver, it's just not shown in game.

But seriously, unless you're charging light armoured troops in front of fresh javelineers you shouldn't have a problem.
Anyway, I'll have a test exe with a few changes ready in about half hour, if you're interested let me know how it plays.

[Zarax]

And here it is: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...96#post7161896

[Shadow_LT]

About new test version: javelins have lost 2 attack, which makes them a bit less powerful, they are now not OP, in my opinion. Numidian archers should have at least 6 missile attack(according to EB they were the best archers in Western Mediterranean, Caesar even had them in Gaul alongside Cretans), Indian longbowmen should have 8 missile attack, I agree that they should have an edge over other archers, but that edge shouldn't be very big.

Edit: played Saba campaign until 263BC(no battles, I don't have time form them now). My economy started slow, but now after conquering towns and building cities, it produces 5000 profit and trade produces 8600 income(40 % of whole income), but I don't have a real army. Romans are doing good, in 270 BC they retook Arpi(from IG) and now are warring against Carthies, RR, indie greeks. Carthaginians are now warring with Romans, Iberians and Roman rebels, but Iberians have almost taken the whole Iberian peninsula. Roman rebels are just holding out against Carthies and romans.

Built 2 governors, they help out a quite a bit, but still want them with 20-30 bodyguard and able to cross seas, also it would be nice if they had 2 turn recruitment, upkeep could be lifted to 150-200 as they make extra 300-400 for the settlement.

Finally a question: academies and other trait and ancillaries giving buildings affect all FM's in settlement, right ? I was wondering, because my heir's son didn't get any traits or ancillaries, while his father got 3 ancillaries.