Would you say yes or no?

[Arto]

Allright this thread is about the census voting right (Dutch:Censuskiesrecht)
that we had on school yesterday. Thorbecke who (I think) invented this voting system had this idea : No representation without taxation. He thought that this was a smart way of voting (Only the smart and rich could vote for their favorite and why should the dumb and poor waste their time?). This voting system was used in Netherlands since 1848 (If you know history you must know what important things happened on that year and it's nickname) and has changed alot like age rights and the rights for gender. Here we live in the Netherlands were there is democracy ; If you are 18 years old and you have a Dutch passport you have the right to vote. My teacher thought that we should go back to 1848 and we still should have the census voting right applying for people above the 18 years old man/female.

Question : Would you like to have the cencus voting right in your country?

My opinion : No, because we have the right to vote, if the rich/people who would pay for taxation to vote had to vote then it would be biased, if everyone should have the right to it? Power to the people!

[Carl von Döbeln]

My answer is...NO

[hellheaven1987]

A lot of rich people are quite dumb actually...

Anyway, it was like the argument between Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton...

My answer is NO by the way, although I do not want to let dumb people vote.

[Prince Rodrigo]

Then only allow the intelligent to vote, maybe countries wouldn't be so bad if competent leaders were installed by the intelligent

[Count Froody]

But how would you determine who's 'intelligent enough to vote'?

My answer is a clear 'no', because the rich have enough power over the common people as it is, it really shouldn't be even more emphasized. Also, as hellheaven pointed out, being rich doesn't automatically make you competent, especially if you have inherited your wealth.

[hellheaven1987]

I suggest everyone should take a test if you want to vote...

[Poach]

I see I'm the only person that answered yes lol. I fully support this idea, if you don't pay tax you don't get the vote. Granted, a lot of rich people are idiots, but everyone that's employed pays taxes! It would simply cut out the lowest of the low in terms of intelligence from votes (eg. those that leech the unemployment benefit)

[Mythos]

Well, it depends on what you consider important. If you consider being a voting citizen regardless of sex, race and wealth then obviously everyone should vote. If you think that the state being run as best as possible is more important, then only the best should vote (aristocracy). How you define "best" is a whole different story.

[czePowerslave]

I voted no.
But honestly, rich people can reach their goals anyway, just bribe and lobby.

[Ozy]

ARe you for or against? That is not a question that can be answered with yes or no...

edit: Im against.

[Achtung!]

If I could vote I would vote no.

How many posts do you need to vote anyways?

Just because you pay taxes you are no more entitled to vote than someone who is on unemployment. The fact that you pay taxes seems irrelevant to the right to vote.
Rather one should have a knowledge of how their government works and be able to make an educated decision on who to vote for.

[czePowerslave]

Rather one should have a knowledge of how their government works and be able to make an educated decision on who to vote for.

Well said

[Stalins Ghost]

God no. Everyone should have the right to vote. Hell, everyone should be forced to vote, even if it's to soil their voting card. A people should choose their own leaders, not have those rich/clever enough to do it for them. This is a basic foundation of democracy. The very idea that there's a restriction like this goes against everything I believe in. Some-one can be "stupid" by conventional means, but may have very lucid and clear ideas about political issues, and they deserve the political power to vote - you don't have to be clever/rich to understand what people are concerned about.

You clearly do not understand that democracy is designed to represent the general sentiments of the entire population, "stupid" people included.

I've got a couple of Dutch mates who actually agree with this though, seems to be a more popular sentiment over there. To be honest, here in the UK, it's lucky if the undesirables vote anyway.

[czePowerslave]

God no. Everyone should have the right to vote. Hell, everyone should be forced to vote, even if it's to soil their voting card. A people should choose their own leaders, not have those rich/clever enough to do it for them. This is a basic foundation of democracy. The very idea that there's a restriction like this goes against everything I believe in. Some-one can be "stupid" by conventional means, but may have very lucid and clear ideas about political issues, and they deserve the political power to vote - you don't have to be clever/rich to understand what people are concerned about.

What I am concerned about it fact, that not everyone is really aware of what they are voting, and populism and media can do their job to rise to power of unwanted individuals / parties.

[Stalins Ghost]

Who really is aware of what you vote for? At least in the UK, there's only 2, perhaps 3 major options come election day. You may vote for one party who has a particular fix for a particular problem you feel strongly about while not taking into account the wider picture. My answer to this? It doesn't matter. Everyone should have a vote. When you take away someone's vote you make them a second class citizen. And why? Because they're not interlectual? Because they haven't got material wealth?! It's a slippary slope - who comes next? Taking away religious group member's votes because they vote for a radical movement? Racial groups who don't quite "fit in"? We might as well bring back slavery while we're at it. To revert to that kind of barbarism is simply unacceptable. Everyone is equal in worth to the next, it's a simple, overarching part of modern society.

[czePowerslave]

Who really is aware of what you vote for? At least in the UK, there's only 2, perhaps 3 major options come election day. You may vote for one party who has a particular fix for a particular problem you feel strongly about while not taking into account the wider picture. My answer to this? It doesn't matter. Everyone should have a vote. When you take away someone's vote you make them a second class citizen. And why? Because they're not interlectual? Because they haven't got material wealth?!

I never mentioned that they should lose their right. All im saying is, that their votes are more media based, then really knowlegde based. Politics eh, I hate that. Thats why I wanna work there

[Maverick]

No. As a member of the underprivileged, undereducated class my only opportunity to actively engage in politics is to support a wealthy aristocrat's bid to placate me and then not represent my interests in public office.

I never mentioned that they should lose their right. All im saying is, that their votes are more media based, then really knowlegde based. Politics eh, I hate that. Thats why I wanna work there

Seriously, here's why only intelligent people should vote:

Candidate: can I count on your support?

Intelligent voter: yes, I agree with your positions on the important issues and I think the party is moving in the right direction.

President: thank you for your support but now that I'm President it was never my intention to keep any of those ridiculous promises I made to you during my campaign, I hope there are no hard feelings.

Intelligent voter: not at all, anyone with a brain knows that politicians are sleazy paedophilic social parasites and are never to be trusted under any circumstances.

[Groenepuntmuts]

you can partly solve the dumb people voting, as we are already doing in the netherlands: your are FREE to vote, it's not obligatory. (unlike in Belgium!)

this way, the idiots who don't care who rules them won't vote.

but, like I said, this partly solves the problem. as my grandmother still votes, and she doesn't even know any of the parties, she thinks the socialist leader is a nice guy, and she simply votes for the christian democrats (CDA...)

edit: I don't mean I'm against her choice, I mean she doesn't think or even know what the party's ideals are.

[Dom9127]

I believe everybody should be made to vote, and if they don't wish too they can spoil their voting card which is a right we all have. I think that it is irresponsible that people don't vote, when in many countries people are dying to get the vote, or a corrupt politician determines their choice.

[Achtung!]

I believe everybody should be made to vote, and if they don't wish too they can spoil their voting card which is a right we all have.

Why? Why should they be forced to vote?

I suspect they have a good reason not to vote. Either they do not like any of the options offered to them or they simply do not care enough to vote.

In either case they should not be forced to vote, their vote would make a joke of democracy. It would truly be a mobocracy. Having millions of uninformed people vote without knowing where the candidate they voted stands on issues is a scary thought.

I highly doubt that many would spoil their ballots. If someone hands you a ballot and asks you to pick between A B or C, you will most likely simply pick one randomly.
Even if 2/3 of all people forced to vote who would not have voted otherwise spoiled their ballots there would still be millions of completely arbitrary votes.

Finally, how would such a system of forced voting be enforced? Would one be punished for not voting? Would they be dragged to the polls and literally forced to vote?

It seems ironic that in some countries people would be punished for not voting and in others for trying to vote.