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  1. #1
    Kleos's Avatar Virtute et Armis
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    Default Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    As with everything New Labour has turned its hand to, immigration policy under their "leadership" has been abysmal - yet the majority of people remain blissfully ignorant or else remain silent.

    Increased immigration under New Labour hasn’t reaped a single benefit for the United Kingdom but has come hand in hand with a whole baggage of problems. Here I wish to raise some of these problems and query if anyone can produce any net benefits to the United Kingdom of Labours immigration policy. I must stress that it is not immigration I am here arguing against, but simply the ridiculous manner in which New Labour has handled the matter.

    Health and Education :

    The practically-unchecked immigration of low-skilled or non economically active persons is placing strain on our already under performing NHS.

    0.5 million of the 2.7 million people who have entered Britain under Labour were not of working age, so they arer either too old to work – and so are a probable burden on the NHS, if not now in the future; or are too young; in which case they would be a burden upon our education system. A direct example of this buden is that 1 in 4 babies born have foreign mothers,double the rate of 97 and to a cost of £350 million.

    The children of immigrants of whom English is not a first language place a significant burden on our overall school standards (translators, barrier to full education, diversion of resources, lack of testing and education records, mid-term arrivals etc).

    As for the actual extent of literacy problems amongst those immigrants without English as their first language, Sir Claus Moser’s (Jewish immigrant from Germany, before anyone questions his motives) 1999 report provides the following graph titled

    “ [English]Language skills of linguistic minority groups”



    The graph was constructed using data from 1995, the difference between then and now of course being that there are a lot more ‘linguistic minority groups’ than previously (and as such, a greater impact on the education system). The figures are quite shocking, particularly the 40% of Punjabi speakers who scored zero.

    While compared to other areas the impact of immigration upon helath and education is quite small, it is nonetheless a financial impact that could have been avoided with tighter immigration controls. Then there is always the pressure of simply having more pupils in our education system – even if all immigrants were fluent in English the added amount of pupils in our education system still increases the overall cost.

    Housing:

    Brown has previously pledged to build three million new houses by 2020 In Browns words:

    "Putting affordable housing within the reach not just of the few but the many is vital both to meeting individual aspirations and to securing a better future for the country,"

    However, according to the governments own statistics the population would have increased by 4.4 million by 2016 alone, up to almost 7 million by 2021. I’m sure I don’t need to highlight that 3 million new houses for a population increase of 7 million is not going to make the slightest dent in the market price of housing; nor does it do much to “secure a better future for the country.”

    And for those who would point out that a lot of that growth must be natural, and not due to immigration; the fertility rate for Britain is 1.66; while the replacement rate for a population is 2.1 (One might even suggest that the housing “problem” would solve itself in the event of a declining population, but that’s a whole other topic)

    We should not also forget that with our present population this small island of ours is more densely populated than China. If current population growth trends aren’t changed…well, I think I’ll emigrate

    Economy:

    New Labour would have us believe that immigration is of vital importance to the British economy, that the majority of immigrants are productive members of our society working in high skilled jobs. Not so, according to the National Institute for Social and Economic Research who using government provided data and other official statistics came up with this report. According to the report, of the 2.7 million people who have entered the country since 1997 only 20% were working in high skilled jobs. 1.3 million were not working at all.

    Some would argue that migration such as we have seen under New Labour has been necessary for economic growth. Well apparently we can have substantial economic growth without migration – according to the Office of National Statistics net migration between 1971 and 1997 was minus 5,000. So, all economic growth in the mentioned time frame had nothing to do with net immigration.

    And how much was that growth you ask? Well, the nearest figure I could find on the internet, from 1970 to 1998 put that growth at 86% (yes, measured in real terms).

    The recent report from the House of Lords Economic Affairs Committee on the 'Economic Impact of Immigration' highlights some interesting findings, quoted below:

    "Overall GDP, which the Government has persistently emphasised, is an irrelevant and misleading criterion for assessing the economic impacts of immigration on the UK. The total size of an economy is not an index of prosperity. The focus of analysis should rather be on the effects of immigration on income per head of the resident population. Both theory and the available empirical evidence indicate that these effects are small, especially in the long run when the economy fully adjusts to the increased supply of labour".

    "This is not an argument for immigration on a scale which exceeds emigration and thus increases the population of the country. We do not support the general claims that net immigration is indispensable to fill labour and skills shortages. Such claims are analytically weak and provide insufficient reason for promoting net immigration".

    "The positive contribution of some immigrants (to the public purse) is largely or wholly offset by negative contributions of others"

    "Arguments in favour of high immigration to defuse the “pensions time bomb” do not stand up to scrutiny and ignore the fact that, in time, immigrants too will grow old and draw pensions."

    "...the economic benefits to resident population of net migration are small especially in the long run."

    For anyone wondering about the political persuasion of the Committees members, it included Lord Sheldon, Lord Layard and the Chinese-born-of-Russian-descent Lord Skidelsky.

    Crime:

    * Edit: Coleman report sourced-data is actually about crime commited by ethnic minorities, not simply foreign born residents, as Mongrel points out on page 2.*

    Increased immigration has placed a large strain on our police service. Scotland Yard was £1 million over budget last year for interpreters; and in the same link you will also find that foreigners were responsible for the majority of murders in London last year.

    The cost of all crime committed by non-Britons in Britain is difficult to come by due to lack of (released) figures; but according to the Professor of Demography at Oxford University the cost of annual crime committed by immigrants *only on individuals and households* is above £3 billion

    According to the governments own statistics roughly 11,000 of our prisoners our foreign born, that’s out of a total of 87,000 - roughly 1 in 8 of our prisoners. The cost of imprisonment in the United Kingdom runs at £37,500 - £49,200, depending upon the figures you wish to use. Using the lesser figure, the cost of foreign prisoners in our jails runs at £412.5 million

    To put these figures into perspective inheritance tax raised £3.5 billion last year, (but will raise less this year due to Labour's Conservative-copying panic-cuts last year);]which happens to be roughly the cost of the foreign committed crime (only on individuals and households remember) and the cost of our foreign prisoner population put together.

    History of Immigration into Britain

    One of the least credible and nonsensical arguments as to why we should put up with immigration is that according to the left, we’re an island of immigrants, always have been, always will be. Yep, any Americans reading – even we in Britain have to put up with historical-of-no-concern-to-the-present-day arguments from the left. And over here they are just as wrong.

    I’d remind people that 2.7 million (4.6%) of the population of the UK has arrived since 1997. Compare to the historical trends (figures taken from this, but can be easily verified online):
    •1066 - William the Conqueror invades with 10,000 Normans, more coming later. The Normans never exceed 5% of Britains then 1.5 million population.
    •Next several centuries- periodic attacks against Jewish communities in Britain
    •1685 onwards - 50,000 Protestant Huguenots seek asylum; population at the time is roughly 5million, so they represent an additional 1%
    •Between 1880 and 1914, some 150,000 asylum seeking Jews (from persecution in Russia and Poland) settle in Britain, arriving at the rate of about 10,000 a year; British population is about 30million, so they represent 0.5%
    •1935-1941 - 70,000 German and other Jews fleeing Hitler enter Britain; an additional 0.15%. Still, when war breaks out, many are held as being potentially "dangerous" to the war effort (including the previously quoted Claus Moser)
    •1939-49 - 300,000 Eastern Europeans escaping the Nazis and the Russians settle here; population stands at 50 million so they represent around 0.6%
    •1948 - Empire Windrush arrives with 492 West Indian immigrants, many ex-servicemen from the war with their families
    •1955-1962 - 472,000 immigrants arrive from the Commonwealth, representing just 0.9% of our 53million population. However escalating racial tension and riots still cause government to impose stricter immigration controls
    •1962-1980 - Commonwealth immigration continues at 70-75,000 pa
    •1972- 30,000 Ugandan Asians fleeing the reign of Idi Amin recieve asylum in Britain; representing 0.05% of our population
    •1980-1996 - Commonwealth immigration equates to 50,000 pa; net immigration close to zero

    As you can see, bar when Britain was invaded in 1066, immigration hasn’t been as high as current levels at any period in our history – and this is what people reading this must get clearly – I’m not against immigration; simply the level and rate at which it is occurring.

    Another (worrying) historical trend that one can see from above is that despite claims that immigration does not lead to racial tension, the majority of waves of immigration have been met with violence. Other than those mentioned above, the influx of Jews in the late 1800's surely presented an easy target for Mosley’s British Union of Fascists in the early 1900’s; and since WW2 we have had several -albeit localised- race related riots in the United Kingdom from the Notting Hill Carnival and Southall in 1976 and 1979 to Oldham and Bradford in 2001.

    And let’s not forget the political cost of Labour’s immigration policies – the BNP with a seat on the London Assembly and over a 100 local councillors.
    As Labour MP Frank Field commented:


    "There will be economic gains [from immigration] but I am just raising whether any country can sustain the rate of immigration we are now suffering."
    "If we are not careful, we will be transformed into a global traffic station and that is not what most people mean by being part of a country."

    He added: "It is only because the BNP are so inept that the debate has not taken off."

    He said mainstream politicians had to address immigration "before the BNP stumbles on somebody with talent".

    "We are living on borrowed time. We can not continue on the assumption that the BNP will present leaders which turn off most voters, even if what they are saying is important," he said.


    Going back to the historical trends of immigration into Britain, rather than lending weight to the policy of New Labour, they show that a limited, low number immigration policy is exactly what this island has always had up to 1997; indeed using previously mentioned figures, in the quarter of a century previous to the curse of New Labour, net migration was minus 5,000.

    Anyone still doubting the role of New Labour in this rapid increase in migration should consider this graph from the previously mentioned Lord’s report. Note the trend after 1997…




    A Rational Policy

    If I have not made it clear enough, I’m not against immigration into Britain; simply the level and the manner in which it is occurring under New Labour. My opinion, for those who wish to know, would be for a zero net effect cap (number of immigrants = number of emigrants) in line with a points-based system.

    Earlier this year New Labour took a massive step in the right direction (it only took eleven years!) with the introduction of a point-system. However, this only applies to non-EU migrants and we still do not have an upper cap on numbers. What we have instead is a system that illogically discriminates against non-EU peoples and will fail to adress the scale of current migration, which is out of proportion to what we have we have witnessed in our nation's past; and fails to adress the obvious: high levels of migration regardless of the literacy or skills of the migrants is going to place a burden on our public services, increase the labour pool (supressing wages), and worsen the UK's balance of trade, as any unchecked population growth (regardless of source) would.

    Gordon Brown has ruled out a cap on migrant numbers, ignoring the evidnece presented by the mentioned House of Lords committee. In the same link he has been quoted as saying:

    "Most people who are proposing a cap are proposing a cap of only 20% of possible migrants into this country"

    Thats interesting, because as I have raised earlier in the post, only 20% of all those immigrants who have entered the country since 1997 are working in skilled jobs!

    It seems I am not alone - 76% of people favour an annual limit on immigration. (n.b. poll was carried out by YouGov, not the Conservatives before questions of reliability are raised)
    Regardless of the pros and cons of New Labour's immigration policy it is their job as our elected representatives to represent our will - not to ignore the opinions of the majority of British citizens.
    Last edited by Kleos; July 03, 2008 at 04:37 PM. Reason: Mogrel pointed out error with the Crime section, adjusted accordingly
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    the amount of immigrants in england is disgraceful. you should the a place by where. a place called small heath.

  3. #3
    Poach's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    I agree that immigration to the UK is horrible. Not fully against it, but the way its being handled it pathetic and negligent.

    Integration is also being poorly handled. "Multiculturalism" isn't diversifying us, it's creating "Little Pakistan" and the like in towns where immigrant populations congregate, there's also been reports of local law being ignored in favour of shiriah (or however it's spelt) law!

    I'd be quite happy to allow immigration if they would become part of our culture, you don't see British people going abroad and demanding to be able to live like they did in Britain, do you?

    Scrap multiculturalism, make them integrate and learn the language and customs or leave. Our laws, our customs, our ways in our country. If they want to live like they did before they arrived, they can go back home.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Poach View Post
    I'd be quite happy to allow immigration if they would become part of our culture, you don't see British people going abroad and demanding to be able to live like they did in Britain, do you?
    Actually there are places in Spain and southern France that are just like that. British citizens leave for these areas and heading straight for British dominated areas. Demanding British newspapers and refusing to learn the local languages (French, Spanish, Basque or Catalan)

  5. #5

    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    Not to mention Australia as well.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Faustus Cassius View Post
    the amount of immigrants in england is disgraceful. you should the a place by where. a place called small heath.
    Alum Rock, Handsworth?

    All three places previously inhabited by Irish immigrants in Birmingham, because :

    a) Communities form and any immigrants of the same nationality flock to them.
    b) Those are run-down and inner-city areas that they can afford to live in.

    Exactly the same principle with newer waves of immigration and probably in the future when some other community brings its bandwagon to Britain. It's not a de jure process, it's entirely de facto due to circumstance. They've chosen to congregate and segregate themselves, it's not a deliberate thing. As I pointed out with the example of the Irish, there's not too many non-immigrants who would live in those areas by choice anyway.

    Not that I'm coming down on either the pro or anti-immigration side

  7. #7

    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    Germany isn't in much better shape, 3% of the population are of Turkish origin and many new ones are coming, also from Russia, former Yugoslavia, Poland etc.

    I don't care about new comers at all but if they abuse our healthcare and social systems while refusing to adapt and not learning the language properly something is wrong. Also kind of annoying that people with an immigrant backround commit far more % of crimes than they make up in the population.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    To be honest, All these places that immigrants come from was part of the british empire some years ago, so im guessing , dont know if im right get some right to live there, but i do know that ALOT of immigrants come in illegally, and and gordon brown doesnt seem to be doing nothing, only a mere political attempt, i hope you get another government soon.

    It stems from the same thing though, in the dark ages (Roman Time) the influx of slaves and immigrants from wars coming in caused alot of problems in the provinces, No jobs and the like, its what was argued in the Senate floor alot, like create new jobs and things, but will always be a problem. i think its time we all got along, immigrants only come for a better life, skilled or no skilled, how do you expect them to be skilled if there in a warzone ?

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  9. #9

    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    Why don't begin by turning all the non-whites into pet food, then all the whites who are not British citizens for at least 5 generations and finally the Irish?

    If I remember correctly Daniel Defoe and Jonathan Swift suggested similar approaches a few centuries ago
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    Manbearpig lives next door to me

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    better integration is the way to go

    Quote Originally Posted by That Damn Robot! View Post
    Alum Rock, Handsworth?

    All three places previously inhabited by Irish immigrants in Birmingham, because :

    a) Communities form and any immigrants of the same nationality flock to them.
    b) Those are run-down and inner-city areas that they can afford to live in.

    Exactly the same principle with newer waves of immigration and probably in the future when some other community brings its bandwagon to Britain. It's not a de jure process, it's entirely de facto due to circumstance. They've chosen to congregate and segregate themselves, it's not a deliberate thing. As I pointed out with the example of the Irish, there's not too many non-immigrants who would live in those areas by choice anyway.

    Not that I'm coming down on either the pro or anti-immigration side
    I would be a decedent of one such Irish immigrant to Birmingham, dispite being 1/2 Irish I consider myself entirely British
    Last edited by Dromikaites; June 30, 2008 at 11:01 PM.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    Exactly, one of the things I was trying to show is that people stop considering themselves immigrants and cease to be considered immigrants after a while.

    So, when in 30 years time loads of people of x nationality are living in Small Heath people will be complaining that there aren't any Mosques in Small Heath anymore instead of "You can't get a pint in Small Heath anymore" or "There isn't a white face to be seen in Small Heath anymore".

  13. #13
    LoZz's Avatar who are you?
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    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    nice post (that is guessing you made it all yourself)


    as with all things. you can have too much of a good thing.

    a little immigration is a good thing, when labour came in we needed it, but not the amount that came.

    the problem is the government thought there was only X amount of people wanted to come to this country, so they figured if they had an "open" boarder X amount of people would almost all get in 5 years or so down the line, just in time for when people started to moan about immigration (which some always will no matter what you do) and then they could say "look its falling! arnt we doing a good at stopping immigration?" when really everyone who wanted to come had already go in.

    the problem is that badly underestimated how much X was, they made the same mistake when it came to the growing EU with how many poles would come. now they are playing catch up up 7+ years of open boarder policy but all that time is going to have a long term effect

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    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    I have a fairly unique perspective as an Australian. We had the White Australia policy, which ceased when I was about 4 or 5 years old. I can look at my annual school class photos from 1977 to 1989, and see the difference in racial makeup every year. It is exponential.

    Mass-immigration from countries of completely different cultures hasn't done any Western country any favours. It only creates . Lawsuits, new laws, fights, collisions and clashes. The riots in France over the last few years are nothing compared to what is coming up in Europe, from my perspective. There will be blood on the streets and innocents will be killed.

    And these stupid politicians, when they claim "We will change things", the moment they get in power, will declare "We will increase the immigration level by X per year."

    Who are they taking their orders from? Not the people, that's for sure.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by boofhead View Post
    Mass-immigration from countries of completely different cultures hasn't done any Western country any favours. It only creates . Lawsuits, new laws, fights, collisions and clashes. The riots in France over the last few years are nothing compared to what is coming up in Europe, from my perspective. There will be blood on the streets and innocents will be killed.
    You've been spending too much time with Enoch Powell.

    Funny actually that he is hailed as some great hero of right wing Britain, when it is probably entirely his fault that issues surrounding immigration have not been dealt with. His words have in fact allowed immigration to become a taboo, when he was realy aiming to get the issue onto the table.

    Just goes to show that behaving in a reactionary and incisive manner rarely achieves the desired results.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    What the hell has happened to my green and pleasant land?
    It's all crumbling like a castle made of sand
    my voice is being ignored and it makes me mad
    I'm saying "Britain for the British" is that so bad?

    The time is coming for the true Brits to wake
    and stop the flood of immigrants before it's too late
    they don't contribute, all they ever do is take
    and none of them seem to want to intergrate

    "It's fine" our leaders said, "We need some unskilled workers
    because the indigenous British people are lazy shirkers
    the immigrants will do the jobs that we don't want to do
    the presence of the immigrants will help all of you"

    They said a hundred thousand would be coming to Britain
    but somehow that turned into almost three million
    everywhere I look an immigrant is on the make
    they didn't help to build my nation yet they all claim a stake

    On our infrastructure they have placed a strain
    traveling to work I can't get a seat on the train
    our leaders don't care; they seem to think it's a game
    let me take you all on a trip down memory lane:

    In the past every person was proud to be British
    many of us were poor I'll be the first to admit it
    but one thing we had was a strong sense of community
    we had pride in our nation, we had togetherness, unity

    I wouldn't mind them wanting to join our nation
    if they were really intrested in intergration
    but they are not; all they want to do is get paid
    they don't care about our culture or about our ways

    I have a son, he is twelve years old and called Paul
    he told me recently he's having a problem at school
    he can't keep up with the work; he's falling behind
    yet the teachers don't even seem to notice or mind

    "There must be some kind of mistake" I thought
    "they wouldn't deny my son the chance to be taught"
    my son is dyslexic he has special needs
    he finds it difficult to write and read
    I phoned the school to see what the problem could be
    hoping they would help him if I beg and plead

    "sorry sir, but we simply do not have the staff
    to give your son help he needs no matter how much you ask
    we don't have the resources; we are over-stretched
    you need to help your son yourself, that would be best"

    So what the hell do I pay taxes for?
    so us Brits can get less, while immigrants get more?
    is this the Britain my grandfather fought and died for?
    a place where I have no rights and with immigrants galore?

    Then I found out less than a week later
    the school had hired no less than five translators
    to help the new foreign pupils so they could understand
    because they don't even speak the language of our land

    I see the way my land is going and it causes me pain
    I see the work of my ancestors going down the drain
    so I've decided to vote for the BNP
    at least they are a party who listen to me

  17. #17

    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Medi Rapper View Post
    What the hell has happened to my green and pleasant land?
    It's all crumbling like a castle made of sand
    my voice is being ignored and it makes me mad
    etc etc etc
    Shame to see the language of Wordsworth and Byron reduced to this, a ditty quite literally pasted from Stormfront.
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    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Shame to see the language of Wordsworth and Byron reduced to this, a ditty quite literally pasted from Stormfront.
    Oh I hardly think so.
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  19. #19
    LoZz's Avatar who are you?
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    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    actually none of them say we will increase immigration. what the problem is how do you stop people entering the country? america has the same problem. how do you control 1000's of miles of coast and land boarders?

    you cant go around killing them, that makes you no better then the nazi's and simply kicking them out only means they are hanging around the boarders waiting again, you need to be able to give them a reason to stay out, and stay in there own country

  20. #20

    Default Re: Immigration into the UK under New Labour

    Actually it was "quite literally" cut and pasted from TWC.

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