Race and intelligence - any correlation?

[Astaroth]

WARNING:

1. I do not at all intend to make this a racist topic of any sort, nor is this thought to be a troll post. So please keep it all on topic, no flaming.

2. I personally don't believe there is any correlation, this topic is mainly to ask others about the matter as I do not know so much about it.

3. I apologize if a similar topic has been made not so much time ago but I searched for something like that and haven't found many similar things.

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Anyway, I guess everyone knows about the comparison of GDP/countries to IQ. This also takes "race" into context (let's just assume there are different races for the sake of the argument, if you want to discuss whether there actually are races, go make your own topic please) and such.
In IQ tests people of non-white/asian "races" have gotten a lower amount of points (on the average).
I personally believe that this is due to cultural and political reasons etc, nothing to do with "races". Education is an important factor:

For example many (most) Africans live in very bad conditions - they don't have any school to go to thus they lack a good education - if you have never learned much about addition and "rows of numbers" (like, 3,4,6,9,13 etc) then you won't score high on such a test. Schools also teach logical thinking, another thing you need for such tests.

Cultural reasons also play a big role:

The IQ tests are generally made for "Westerners" and their cultural view. If now a (black) African takes the test, some things which are normal and common in Western civilization are completely new to him - thus he won't be able to score high.

=> To sum it up, I believe that the above mentioned things are the main causes for the rather low results some countries/"races" have in IQ tests. I do not believe that having a black skin etc has any influence on this.

However, what do you think? I am not really familiar with this subject so if anyone else who is more knowledgeable could share his views it would be very much appreciated!

[wilpuri]

Intelligence is genetic and does correlate to some extent with genetic clusters (=human populations). This is what I think.

To think that "we're all equal in every aspect" is to live on another planet. Living through a single day in this world will teach you that.

[Astaroth]

But do you think that some races are (on the average) stronger/weaker and more/less intelligent than others?

[wilpuri]

But do you think that some races are (on the average) stronger/weaker and more/less intelligent than others?

Yes. But the variation must be very great within traditional races.

[Tankbuster]

I think it's very well possible that there is a correlation between race and intelligence. Very well possible.

I don't think it's significant however, and I have no idea which races would be more intelligent.

[H.r.E.]

its mainly a matter of culture and the region you live in like you explained sunl1ght however i dont think "race" has anything to do with intelligence cuz i think the genes are mixed good enough (if you understand what i mean )

[wilpuri]

Btw, I don't think this should be in the politics sub-forum, unless you are suggesting some kind of political reaction to genetic variation in intelligence.

[Gobmech]

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm not completely sure about the true-ishness of my next statement: Back in the Middle Ages, the Asian and Middle Eastern people made the most scientific progress (socially, at least), while today, the average citizen of either parts of the world would probably score less on some fancy-pancy intelligence test than the average European or American* citizen.

Before them, it was the Romans, while in the Middle Ages the Europeans were basically thrown into a Dark Age, where most scientific progress was based on warfare.

So I'd say that it's purely based on cultural influence in a designated area.

*(American reffering to the United States of America and Canada).

[Heinz Guderian]

Japanese followed by Koreans followed by Chinese. The Japanese are superior to us all. Us whiteys can be pretty smart sometimes, especially when we shoot down the notion that there is a correlation between race and intelligence.

[wilpuri]

Japanese followed by Koreans followed by Chinese. The Japanese are superior to us all. Us whiteys can be pretty smart sometimes, especially when we shoot down the notion that there is a correlation between race and intelligence.

Race is genetic, at least to a degree, no matter how you look at it, and intelligence is genetic. Therefore the notion is not completely undeserved.

Its our way of approaching this fact that makes it a political question.

[JP226]

Of course there is a correlation between race and intelligence. How much does it have to do with genetics? I don't know, but I imagine the answer is not zero. I think the bigger difference is the avergae black person lives where? Africa which has no real school/ capable economic system to speak of. Samething with Arabs, Indians (granted it's changing) and the vast majority of Asians. Although with asians, thanks to pockets like capitalist minority in china and then South Korea and Japan, Asia is doing better. Primarily, intelligence is a fnction of things like economic development which then promotes and educational system that is capable of increasing or fostering an environment for higher intelligence.

[Heinz Guderian]

Of course there is a correlation between race and intelligence. How much does it have to do with genetics? I don't know, but I imagine the answer is not zero. I think the bigger difference is the avergae black person lives where? Africa which has no real school/ capable economic system to speak of. Samething with Arabs, Indians (granted it's changing) and the vast majority of Asians. Although with asians, thanks to pockets like capitalist minority in china and then South Korea and Japan, Asia is doing better. Primarily, intelligence is a fnction of things like economic development which then promotes and educational system that is capable of increasing or fostering an environment for higher intelligence.

I agree (except for the part about "of course there is a correlation between race and intelligence). I agree with the fact that intelligence would be a function of socio-economic factors, geography, demographics and upbringing. Rather than the melanin in your skin or the structure of your features.

[Astaroth]

Gobmech, Asians (those you were talking about) tend to score higher than Europeans/Americans in current IQ tests.

[JP226]

I agree (except for the part about "of course there is a correlation between race and intelligence). I agree with the fact that intelligence would be a function of socio-economic factors, geography, demographics and upbringing. Rather than the melanin in your skin or the structure of your features.

Well correlation just means that a change in Y experiences a change in x. Causation on the other hand sees a change in Y leading to a change in X. Yes there is a correlation, causation? A bit more nebulous.

[Heinz Guderian]

Well correlation just means that a change in Y experiences a change in x. Causation on the other hand sees a change in Y leading to a change in X. Yes there is a correlation, causation? A bit more nebulous.

I dont understand how that would correspond or make more or less likely in regards to phenotype (either path).

[rez]

Moved to the Athenaeum

[Dr. Croccer]

It's a matter of economics and development. Most Europeans were uneducated and illiterate in the Middle Ages and in the Industrial Ages but that wasn't due to race or whatever, but because of social inequality, poverty and a lack of support from the government to supply the average Joe with intellectual resources. Black Africa has been in the dark for most of it's time concerning intelligence of the commoner, and it has nothing to do with race or the like. The notion that some skin pigment or small adaptations to the region can cause cultural and intellectual inferiority is simply ridiculous.

Silly thread, but why am I not surprised?

[Miraj]

Intelligence is genetic. Yes. Race is genetic. Well of course. That doesn't mean these two correlate at all. The key here is what this idea of "race" is anyways. I can understand certain population clusters being on average more intelligent than others, but that's hardly as a broad a definition as race. And the intelligence of these population clusters tends to be a function of their culture and lifestyle that "bred" a certain way of thinking among that very specific populations.

The greatest evidence against the white-supremacist notions of race and intelligence (as will be inevitably peddled here by our resident WS's) is history itself. If whites were truly superior in intelligence to others then how come whites (ie northern europeans) only reached a level of supremacy over the rest of us only in the last 3 centuries and were largely considered barbaric savages, by many of us, prior to this? Humans are more intelligent than other apes and we've always been on top compared to apes. If whites were really more intelligent than others then I would have expected them to have been pwning us brown n00bs for at least a few millenia now.

[Heinz Guderian]

"brown n00bs" .

I bet you aint even that brown aryan boy.

It has alot to do with regression analysis and how correlations work. It's like saying because ice cream sales are up, there are more shark attacks. Well, the two are indeed correlated, but when you factor in weather you start to find that ice cream doesn't cause shark attacks. Same thing with race, if you are white you are on average smarter than say black people, but when you factor in development again you don't find that skin color determines brain capabilities.

wouldnt that mean that intelligence is linked to (current) historic circumstance rather than "race" (phenotype, colour, etc)? As Miraj mentioned, we were vanilla faced n00bs before the renaissance when compared to the Ottomans or Moors so if the question "is race linked to intelligence" was asked a few centuries ago, it would be answered that brown people are on average smarter than white people. Therefore, being white does not make it more likely that you will be more intelligent than a non-white, but it depends more on current socio-economic conditions. Therefore, race has nothing to do with intellgence, its current historic circumstance as well as the factors we both mentioned (as well as the argument proposed by the not so brown n00b).

[JP226]

I dont understand how that would correspond or make more or less likely in regards to phenotype (either path).

It has alot to do with regression analysis and how correlations work. It's like saying because ice cream sales are up, there are more shark attacks. Well, the two are indeed correlated, but when you factor in weather you start to find that ice cream doesn't cause shark attacks. Same thing with race, if you are white you are on average smarter than say black people, but when you factor in development again you don't find that skin color determines brain capabilities.

Intelligence is genetic. Yes. Race is genetic. Well of course. That doesn't mean these two correlate at all.

correlation and causation are two completely diffrent things. Correlation means the two elements/ variables move in tandem (Positive or negative), causation means one element/ variable makes the other variable move in tandem.