Denmark and their armies

[Bond]

Just started a game on retrofit+grand unit addon and had a question about Denmark.

I have read posts/threads and the general theory is: base your army on infantry..thing is that I have always done this. 10-12 units of infantry and the rest of my army is cavalry/missle units - is that what people mean?

Also what has worked best against factions that primarily get calvary/HAs?

This is my first attempt at a faction that lacks decent spearmen which made up the bulk of my other armies(dont want to be dependent on mercenary spearmen either).

[Xamt]

base your army on infantry means: you should rely on infantry to win you the day... the danes dont have a lot of missile unit or cavalry options (heck even their cavalry is infantry on horses.... i.e. no lances and big charge bonuses/powerfull charge traits)

lacking ranged diversity (mind you their norse archers still pack a nice ranged punch and can take care of their own in melee) the danes do excell in melee combat... their units have nice stamina / morale / armor, they have a few units (huskarls, mounted huskarls) that can scare nearby infantry and almost all of their units get a bonus against armor

imo you should counter enemy cavalry with your own cavalry (if u dont like spear militias and u dont yet have/like to use swordstaff militia) - your early cavalry (mounted huskarls) with the armor piercing trait should be able to go toe to toe with anything the enemy has to throw at you (cavalry - wise) and when u finally get ur war clerics no heavy or light cavalry should be able to stand against them 1v1

as for HA's, i would go for an army based on norse archers.... they have a nice missile attack and a high enough armor to shrug off most of the arrows that hit em

[Theseus1234]

the scouts should be enough to chase down weaker HAs and defeat them in melee comabt. however, when face with tougher HAs like Variodotai or w/e, then you need at least upgraded and experienced scouts or use heavy missile units like crossbowmen or norse archers

[knight of virtue and valor]

"dear Lord, please save us from the wrath of the north men".... The vikings,at least in the early era, are ill suited to go against heavy calvary their weapons, axes and maybe swords, are not made to stop the charge of heavy calvary. But this is no true loss at first, due to the fact that good heavy calvary, for all nations, are late era commodity's, due to their expense, and the long in coming buildings required to train them. So they will smash most armies you will see at first, due to the fact that their early era units are far better motivated and equipped then the early era militia and levy armies that you will fight in the early era, so, actually, if you play your card right, you will have units capable of fulfilling every purpose long before the enemy can do any thing against your viking might besides just praying "Lord, please save us from the wrath of the north men"!

[townie33]

the idea of a mostly infantry army is the key to the success of the danes do not leave the norse archers behind. They have the armor and melee attack to hold their own. They are a great asset because they can fill both the heavy infantry role and the archer role. Also people tend to think that the danes lack any good cavalry but the huscarls and norse war clerics can beat anything thrown at them. They will be the key to defeating cavalry heavy armies.Now we come to the spears, which are utterly useless. The danes only get decent spear units in large cities and citadels. The swordstaff militia and the Obudsher (I hope i spelled that right) are polearm/halberd infantry that do get a slight cavalry bonus even though it doesn't say in the game. These will be your spearmen and could be your main line of infantry too but in any role they have you must support them. They can do many things but they can't do many things well. Hope that helps.

[Viking Prince]

I do not see the need for more than the general's body guard, two mounted huscarls and two scouts for even a full stack in the first 75 (or even 100) turns of the game. The Norse archers are great. I think about 1/3 of the non-cav force works for me. The rest can be a mix, but mostly the dismounted Huscarls. I do not seem to use the Viking Raiders very well, but they are better than peasants to fill out the force (I just expect them to be the flanking unit in a melee).

The nice thing about the Danes is that you get a variety of foot units early on so you can produce every turn from the castle (money, as always seems to be a limiting factor).

Speaking of money, I am trying out the Custom Campaign2 Mod which seems to trade time for money as the primary constraint. You build in every settlement every turn and it is hard to spend it all. Problem is that it takes forever to get to the units that you want (more turns to build units/structures and two structure builds where one was the rule).

I am on turn 34 with the Danes -- all but the Russian home is mine on the Baltic and the Russians will fall in the next few turns. I am keeping a cash balance above 10,000 florins with no sacking (no sacking with the Danes!?!?). I am taking it easy and just enjoying a laid back game. Norse Archers are a wonder to watch tearing a unit apart. I still need to use the milita spears on guard mod (Norse Archers without Longbow stakes, you know). How do you give the archers cover?

Perfect fit with the Danes!

[Bond]

thanks for the replies!

and u guys are right about how no one can compare to them in the early game..my armies are rolling through the HRE like it was nothing

EDIT: Thought this was worth mentioning..Denmark gets a calvary unit which on normal settings gets 60 units compared to the normal 30. I think their stats are similar to the scouts - will be neat incorporating these guys into my armies(imagine being able to match 2 calvary units in #'s with one)

[Mithrane]

One of the odder benefits to Danemark which has yet to be mentioned... their castles give production of their infantry, NOT their cavalry. Most factions, you get the ability to recruit cavalry on a slow respawn based on the level of castle you own. As Danes, you get infantry.

And, since their early units are so strong (Dismounted Huscarls and Viking Raiders) they can do with a simple castle for a very long time.

As to troop choice... My typical army as the Danes is 1/2 - 3/4 full stacked. It typically has equal numbers Norse Archers and Dismounted Huscarls. I then put in about 2-4 units of Viking Raiders. I then put in a general ad 1-3 units of Huscarls for cavalry. I might put in a single unit of scouts for light cavalry, but rarely need them. As I progress to higher infantry, I put in 2-4 of their higher defensive infantry to act as defensive lines when needed.

As to use.. I split my forces into 2-3 groups. The main group is typically forward in the center. It contains 2/3 of my archers, and 2/3 of my huscarls, and all of my higher-end defensive units if I have any. The second group is far off to the flank, usually my right flank, but if there are woods or high hills on the left, I send them there. The second group is mostly light infantry with a few heavy for "push" factor and an archer or two to harrass the back lines. If I have a 3rd group, it is almost always full cavalry. They go to my left flank, far out, and are designed for traditional hammer-anvil flanking once the main group becomes involved.

The beauty of the Danes is that, aside from facing cavalry, your archers need little if any protection. They are disgustingly powerful in melee in their own right. So, you simply march up your center line to the enemy, stopping to shoot from time to time. Leave a hole for them to think they are exploiting, and then plunge your archers into melee once the enemy takes the bait. By this time, you have your right flank in position to push in on the now mis-managed line of the enemy, and your cavalry taking out their back lines and pushing into their archers/arty/generals.

[Xamt]

for ppl saying they dont use viking raiders a lot...

in general i distinguish the roles of the troops in my army into the following categories:
1) cheap troops to take the brunt of the casualties (mostly militia or viking raiders)
2) shock troops (cavalry or depending on the faction infantry as well)
3) missile troops

so in a faction without heavy spears and limited cavalry options like the danes i keep a healthy number of viking raiders with me (about 1/3 of my army - depending on economics/stage of the game) to use as a "shield" for my more expensive and harder to replace units (dismounted huskarls, norse archers etc)

the viking raiders are cheap, low upkeep, easy to mass produce troops that are average infantry so it can give u a small advantage over enemy infantry and you wont care too much if they die horribly

[Mithrane]

Viking raiders work decently as the human shield approach but for a few factors.

First, iirc, they have no morale boost, and their defense isn't awe inspiring. Thus, a good charge can send them routing or kill them outright rather easily.

Second, they are only slightly better in melee than Norse Archers, and almost identical in price. Thus, one might as well get norse archers and pepper the enemy while they wait to enter melee.

Third, while huscarls may require a bit more investment to start, their upkeep is the same. They also have good moral/stamina, making them FAR better, even with 15 less in numbers on standard game settings. Thus,if you can afford huscarls, they are the better investment over time.

Finally, as the Danes, I find I very much avoid open cavalry battles. I stick to the hills and at all costs aim for a forest fight. The bonus the Danes get in woods is amazing, and woods ruin cavalry.

For these reasons, I find very little use for the human shield approach. That being said, I tend to keep 2-4 stacks of the little buggers in my armies just the same, as they do make for good light flanking infantry, and can fill the role of human shield should I absolutely need it.

I honestly tend to use them more as the finishing force. The heavier infantries (Huscarls to start, and then Axemen, Swordsmen, and Dismounted Feudal Knights at higher end) start the fight, charge to their respective positions and engage the enemy head on. The little cavalry I have is taking the flank/archers/arty out of the picture, and heading towards their cavalry (usually they don't have a ton of it in the central nations). The raiders are used to push into weak areas (where I need more help or where they are about to break), flank if their left is open, and swarm cavalry which has already become engaged.

The key to light infantry in mid-later game, is to make sure the enemy is already engaged. Light infantry and light cavalry die rather fast if focused on. Thus, they need their target to be busy. They are the hammer and the rock, not the anvil or the hard place.

[Theseus1234]

also another thing, huscarls (both mounted and dismounted) and raiders cause fear, so if ANY unit you see is fighting and is at "shaken" or "wavering", then charge your cheap raiders at them and they will rout almost instantly

[abhijeet_316]

hmm cheap thing to do but i luv d longbowman so much dat i added stakes to to dane archers, holy crap dey are powerful, but thot givin dem ap wld be ovrkill

[Viking Prince]

hmm cheap thing to do but i luv d longbowman so much dat i added stakes to to dane archers, holy crap dey are powerful, but thot givin dem ap wld be ovrkill

Welcome to the forum! One reason why I like MIITW is that everyone can make changes to the system. Make it your own game or have the challange with what others have thought worth playing.

[thedarkknight5]

the key to winning battles as the danes is support....especially agaisnt the more cavalry heavy armies of the french, polish, russians, hungarians etc....using units that can soak up charges such as fuedal knights (dismounted) then using huscarls (agaisnt other infantry) and norse axeman (vs cavalry).always use flaming arrows on ur norse archers...as ur vikings seem(not sure by design or not) cause fear alot easier.

basically outnumbering ur oponent is a key and hitting flanks ...and protecting ur own with stalwart units such as fueldal knights or norse clerics (i prefer clerics)

[Viking Prince]

always use flaming arrows on ur norse archers...as ur vikings seem(not sure by design or not) cause fear alot easier.

Welcome to the Forum! A great first post!

Remember that flaming arrows are less accurate. If you want to break units, use flames. If you want to kill units, do not use flames.

[Mithrane]

Welcome to the Forum! A great first post!

Remember that flaming arrows are less accurate. If you want to break units, use flames. If you want to kill units, do not use flames.

I agree with you, to a point. Flaming arrows also kill what they hit far more often than regular arrows. I've seen heavily armored troops slowed down and wounded by masses of archers, only to arrive at the target with nearly full numbers. Now, when those same archers used flaming arrows, far more of the infantry died on approach, though few were injured.

[townie33]

even though flaming arrows are less accurate you should be using more than one unit of norse archers. Two units of norse archers firing on a single unit is enough to cause significant casualties to the enemy. So accuracy "shouldn't" be a a major issue.