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  1. #1
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default The bystander effect

    Thirty-Eight Who Saw Murder Didn't Call the Police
    New York Times
    Martin Gansberg
    March 27, 1964

    For more than half an hour 38 respectable, law-abiding citizens in Queens watched a killer stalk and stab a woman in three separate attacks in Kew Gardens.

    Twice their chatter and the sudden glow of their bedroom lights interrupted him and frightened him off. Each time he returned, sought her out, and stabbed her again. Not one person telephoned the police during the assault; one witness called after the woman was dead.

    That was two weeks ago today.

    Still shocked is Assistant Chief Inspector Frederick M. Lussen, in charge of the borough's detectives and a veteran of 25 years of homicide investigations. He can give a matter-of-fact recitation on many murders. But the Kew Gardens slaying baffles him--not because it is a murder, but because the "good people" failed to call the police.

    "As we have reconstructed the crime," he said, "the assailant had three chances to kill this woman during a 35-minute period. He returned twice to complete the job. If we had been called when he first attacked, the woman might not be dead now."

    This is what the police say happened at 3:20 A.M. in the staid, middle-class, tree-lined Austin Street area:

    Twenty-eight-year-old Catherine Genovese, who was called Kitty by almost everyone in the neighborhood, was returning home from her job as manager of a bar in Hollis. She parked her red Fiat in a lot adjacent to the Kew Gardens Long Island Railroad Station, facing Mowbray Place. Like many residents of the neighborhood, she had parked there day after day since her arrival from Connecticut a year ago, although the railroad frowns on the practice.

    She turned off the lights of her car, locked the door, and started to walk the 100 feet to the entrance of her apartment at 82-70 Austin Street, which is in a Tudor building, with stores in the first floor and apartments on the second.

    The entrance to the apartment is in the rear of the building because the front is rented to retail stores. At night the quiet
    neigborhood is shrouded in the slumbering darkness that marks most residential areas.

    Miss Genovese noticed a man at the far end of the lot, near a seven-story apartment house at 82-40 Austin Street. She halted. Then, nervously, she headed up Austin Street toward Lefferts Boulevard, where there is a call box to the 102nd Police Precinct in nearby Richmond Hill.

    She got as far as a street light in front of a bookstore before the man grabbed her. She screamed. Lights went on in the 10-story apartment house at 82-67 Austin Street, which faces the bookstore. Windows slid open and voices punctuated the early-morning stillness.

    Miss Genovese screamed: "Oh, my God, he stabbed me! Please help me! Please help me!"

    From one of the upper windows in the apartment house, a man called down: "Let that girl alone!"

    The assailant looked up at him, shrugged, and walked down Austin Street toward a white sedan parked a short distance
    away. Miss Genovese struggled to her feet.

    Lights went out. The killer returned to Miss Genovese, now trying to make her way around the side of the building by the
    parking lot to get to her apartment. The assailant stabbed her again.

    "I'm dying!" she shrieked. "I'm dying!"

    Windows were opened again, and lights went on in many apartments. The assailant got into his car and drove away. Miss Genovese staggered to her feet. A city bus, 0-10, the Lefferts Boulevard line to Kennedy International Airport, passed. It was 3:35 A.M.

    The assailant returned. By then, Miss Genovese had crawled to the back of the building, where the freshly painted brown
    doors to the apartment house held out hope for safety. The killer tried the first door; she wasn't there. At the second door, 82-62 Austin Street, he saw her slumped on the floor at the foot of the stairs. He stabbed her a third time--fatally.

    It was 3:50 by the time the police received their first call, from a man who was a neighbor of Miss Genovese. In two minutes they were at the scene. The neighbor, a 70-year-old woman, and another woman were the only persons on the street. Nobody else came forward.

    The man explained that he had called the police after much deliberation. He had phoned a friend in Nassau County for advice and then he had crossed the roof of the building to the apartment of the elderly woman to get her to make the call.

    "I didn't want to get involved," he sheepishly told police.

    Six days later, the police arrested Winston Moseley, a 29-year-old business machine operator, and charged him with homicide. Moseley had no previous record. He is married, has two children and owns a home at 133-19 Sutter Avenue, South Ozone Park, Queens. On Wednesday, a court committed him to Kings County Hospital for psychiatric observation.

    When questioned by the police, Moseley also said he had slain Mrs. Annie May Johnson, 24, of 146-12 133d Avenue, Jamaica, on Feb. 29 and Barbara Kralik, 15, of 174-17 140th Avenue, Springfield Gardens, last July. In the Kralik case, the police are holding Alvin L. Mitchell, who is said to have confessed to that slaying.

    The police stressed how simple it would have been to have gotten in touch with them. "A phone call," said one of the detectives, "would have done it." The police may be reached by dialing "0" for operator or SPring 7-3100.

    Today witnesses from the neighborhood, which is made up of one-family homes in the $35,000 to $60,000 range with the exception of the two apartment houses near the railroad station, find it difficult to explain why they didn't call the police.

    A housewife, knowingly if quite casually, said, "We thought it was a lovers' quarrel." A husband and wife both said, "Frankly, we were afraid." They seemed aware of the fact that events might have been different. A distraught woman, wiping her hands in her apron, said, "I didn't want my husband to get involved."

    One couple, now willing to talk about that night, said they heard the first screams. The husband looked thoughtfully at the bookstore where the killer first grabbed Miss Genovese.

    "We went to the window to see what was happening," he said, "but the light from our bedroom made it difficult to see the street." The wife, still apprehensive, added: "I put out the light and we were able to see better."

    Asked why they hadn't called the police, she shrugged and replied: "I don't know."

    A man peeked out from a slight opening in the doorway to his apartment and rattled off an account of the killer's second attack. Why hadn't he called the police at the time? "I was tired," he said without emotion. "I went back to bed."

    It was 4:25 A.M. when the ambulance arrived to take the body of Miss Genovese. It drove off. "Then," a solemn police detective said, "the people came out."
    http://www2.selu.edu/Academics/Facul.../gansberg.html

    This case has been known as the best case-study of the "bystander effect" in psychology. That is the fact that many will watch a crime happen and do nothing about it, even when there is no danger to themself and they have the means to do so.

    Here is a wiki article on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
    What do you think should be done about this?
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  2. #2
    gambit's Avatar Gorak
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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    I've never heard of it named the 'bystander effect' but it certainly does exist. I wouldn't make it seem so official as if it's some kind of psychological disorder, it's just people being lazy, afraid and they don't wanna do anything because they simple don't know anything. I can understand if a guy got shot in the street and someones afraid to run out cause they might get shot. But things like the youtube video out now of the guy who gets in RUN OVER and no one even bothers to go help, they just walk by ignoring it. One woman even stares at him for a good 30 seconds then praddles on her way.

    "We went to the window to see what was happening," he said, "but the light from our bedroom made it difficult to see the street." The wife, still apprehensive, added: "I put out the light and we were able to see better."
    Ok...did the bright lights make it hard for you to hear "OH MY GOD HE STABBED ME?!"

    Asked why they hadn't called the police, she shrugged and replied: "I don't know."
    You know damn well why you didn't do anything, you're lazy and incompetent.

    "We thought it was a lovers' quarrel."
    "What!? He stabbed you!? Oh...she may have cheated on you....alright, peace out. *close window*"

    There's nothing you can truly do about it. This is simply what people are becoming in societies, you can tell it mostly happens in big cities where the truly slow witted seem to thrive. For some reason they think if theres other people, that immediatly means you have to do nothing cause someone is supposed to do something right? That means I dont try at all just in case he/she MIGHT have done something about it.
    Last edited by gambit; June 26, 2008 at 07:22 PM.
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  3. #3
    Ramashan's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    What can be done about it? Do you make it illegal for people not to help? Which would force people to have to act or lie and potentially withhold information for fear of being charged with not helping.

    The Katie Genovese case was so popular when I was growing up in NY that I can't recall a time not knowing about. And its one that has always made me question myself, 'Would I ignore the cries of someone in distress?'

    Over time I have been challenged on this and was in a situation where bystanders did nothing to help me. When you hear someone calling out its first of all hard to tell if there is a serious problem when you have a woman screaming because she is playing around. And once something is happening, do you want to take responsibility for it?

    I think a lot of people feel that someone else will step in and you wont have to get involved. This is the case for accidents along the road at night.

    We have a sense that, this is what the police and ambulances are for. It takes time for them to arrive and sometimes its time that a wounded individual or someone being attacked doesn't have. But in the end, its just easier not to do anything and convince yourself you weren't responsible for helping in the first place.

    We all hope we will help. But we can never tell how we're going to react till the situation rears its head and we have to act. And these usually occur when you least expect or want them to.
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  4. #4
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    Its not a psychological disorder, rather human behavior which is influenced by human psychology.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  5. #5
    God's Avatar Shnitzled In The Negev
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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    Acording to wiki, "the common portrayal of neighbors being fully aware, but completely nonresponsive has later been criticized as inaccurate"

    None of the witnesses observed the attacks in their entirety. Because of the layout of the complex and the fact that the attacks took place in different locations, no witness saw the entire sequence. Most only heard portions of the incident without realizing its seriousness, a few saw only small portions of the initial assault, and no witnesses directly saw the final attack and attempted rape in an exterior hallway which resulted in Genovese's death.[1]

    Nevertheless, media attention to the Genovese murder led to reform of the NYPD's telephone reporting system; the system in place at the time of the assault was often inefficient and directed individuals to the incorrect department.

  6. #6
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    The story itself may be a parable, but is only the most well known story, but there are plenty such stories of that, including the one today and the Iwo Jima Veteran beat up in the middle of the street.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  7. #7

    Default Re: The bystander effect

    Hi Guys.

    The bystander effect has been studied for quite a while so we know a fair bit about it. The two main reasons that i can remember are diffusion of responsibility and not wanting to look stupid. Its natural that when you are in a group to not feel as responsible for whats occuring as when you are by yourself, thats why the larger the group the less likely you are to help. This could also be linked to why the average person is more likely to commit violence in a mob than alone. Also if no one else is helping your more likely to think that it might not be real and if you interfere (as someone said earlier they could be joking around) you risk embarrasing yourself, so your less likely to do so.
    There probably isnt much we can do as a society to stop it. The only advice I can give is that if something is happening to you and theres a group there point to one person and say help me. That way responsibility is not diffused, its all on them.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The bystander effect

    also the incompetence and laziness of the person can be taken in, which was said earlier.
    you see a person being stabbed, but then you see other people watching, and you think "oh someone else will call" which is what everyone else is thinking too. thus, the person dies due to the sheer laziness of the people.

    edit: i remember reading this very same case in 7th grade, and in my class we concluded that the 38 people who didnt help were all accomplices to her murder. a little harsh, but very VERY true
    Last edited by Theseus1234; June 27, 2008 at 06:02 PM.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: The bystander effect

    maybe they didnt like her

  10. #10

    Default Re: The bystander effect

    Could it be possible that they assumed someone else would call the police?

    Something like that happened at a pool. A victim drowned and bystanders didn't call EMS because they had assumed others had called already.

    The lifeguard performed CPR for 30 minutes but the victim died because EMS had not arrived soon enough. :/

  11. #11
    Poach's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    Those who "suffer" from this bystander effect need to grow a spine. There is no excuse for cowardice and no excuse for hiding from responsibility like that. Not only would I have called the police, I'd have called an ambulance and went outside to guard the woman.

    Everyone who witnessed the attacks and did nothing are spineless cowards and I hope the same happens to them.

  12. #12
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Poach View Post
    Those who "suffer" from this bystander effect need to grow a spine. There is no excuse for cowardice and no excuse for hiding from responsibility like that. Not only would I have called the police, I'd have called an ambulance and went outside to guard the woman.

    Everyone who witnessed the attacks and did nothing are spineless cowards and I hope the same happens to them.
    So you say...

    Its not cowardice, its when you are in a group everyone assumes someone else will do something or call the police. Its a form of social loafing.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

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    Poach's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    So I do say Farnan! I would never sit around in a situation like that, and if it turned out I was one of many who called the police for the exact same incident, I wouldn't feel stupid or silly, I'd feel proud (of myself and those around me).

    Ya know what they say, to assume makes an ass of you and me Seriously though, I wouldn't sit around and do nothing and I certainly wouldn't sit around and let someone get murdered by a knife. (Yes, if the assailant had a gun and I didn't I'd certainly keep my distance. It's from America as well, I bet half the people who saw the woman had a gun in the house somewhere! )

  14. #14
    chriscase's Avatar Chairman Miao
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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    Group dynamics can be extremely powerful. Until you head off a mob through your rhetorical prowess and personal courage, your claim of immunity must be taken as outright naivete.

    Perhaps a redefinition of citizenship could instill a greater sense of personal responsibility to the law. Heinlein had ideas along these lines. But since this means an effective disenfranchisement of large numbers of people, it's inherently undemocratic.

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    Poach's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    I never said I could head off a mob (I'm not even sure what you mean by that), I was merely insisting that I would never stand around and let someone who was screaming for help or clearly in trouble to die or get injured.

    Granted I have never been witness to a murder but I have helped people who need it before regardless of what group I was in.

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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    This is what most people have become -- selfcentered and selfish. Helping others is not the responsibility of everyone, rather it rests with the police, the firemen, or the paramedics. Integrity, honor, and commitment to others comes only through believing something greater than yourself. As religion fades the selfishness of people grows.
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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    Integrity, honor, and commitment to others comes only through believing something greater than yourself. As religion fades the selfishness of people grows.
    Religion is not the only thing that is greater than oneself. There are many ideologies that do that. Communism, fascism, nationalism, humanism etc.

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  18. #18
    Poach's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    Well Turbo, while your conclusion may apply to some people, it certainly isn't universal. I'm an Atheist and have been since I was old enough to reason for myself, and I'm not selfish and self-centred, I would help anyone in any serious trouble.

    Mythos is right, many ideologies give a base respect for your fellow man, and can equally cause you to lose it. Claiming religion is the only way to have integrity, honour and commitment is a baseless claim to make.

  19. #19
    chriscase's Avatar Chairman Miao
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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    The behavior of individuals within a group is notoriously different from the behavior of the very same individuals exclusive of the group. Mob behavior is the best known and most extreme example. Anyone who claims they are totally immune is almost certainly speaking from ignorance. Moral outrage and declamations of one's superiority, while likely to be gratifying to the speaker, are, for the most part, beside the point. These kinds of statements are typical of the very people who have aggregated in mobs and commited the very atrocities they claim to abhor. This is where the phenonenon of collective amnesia would appear to come in handy.

    Keep in mind that the question is not merely whether one is more or less likely to help, say, a homeless guy who is obviously in need of medical assistance. It's whether an individual is more likely to ignore the same homeless guy when walking past him in a group as opposed to walking past him alone.

  20. #20
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: The bystander effect

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscase View Post
    The behavior of individuals within a group is notoriously different from the behavior of the very same individuals exclusive of the group. Mob behavior is the best known and most extreme example. Anyone who claims they are totally immune is almost certainly speaking from ignorance. Moral outrage and declamations of one's superiority, while likely to be gratifying to the speaker, are, for the most part, beside the point. These kinds of statements are typical of the very people who have aggregated in mobs and commited the very atrocities they claim to abhor. This is where the phenonenon of collective amnesia would appear to come in handy.

    Keep in mind that the question is not merely whether one is more or less likely to help, say, a homeless guy who is obviously in need of medical assistance. It's whether an individual is more likely to ignore the same homeless guy when walking past him in a group as opposed to walking past him alone.
    Exactly...

    The bystander effect is used to show how differently people act in groups rather than by themself. If only one person was around when the attack happened he would probably have called the police or stopped it. However with so many around, everyone assumed that someone else would do it.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

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