WRE Strategy

[Sardaukar One]

Just installed Ruina Roma.
I've taken a look at the factions and have opted to start off with the western Roman empire.
They seem to be somewhat screwed.

I hit end turn and am now 15-18,000 in the red.
After just one turn. Wow!

My dilema is that money aside, it seems to me that I need to pull troops back from areas I can't possibly hope to defend. Like Spain. And Illyria/Dalmatia.
If for no other reason than to garrison the remaining cities to get the tax rate up.

My plan is to abandon Spain. Maybe try to keep Carthago Nova.
Abandon Illyria and Dalmatia. Maybe keep Salona.
Basically just pull back into Italy behind the Alps. Deal with the Goths and then try to expand.
In Africa, pull all the troops back from the forts into the cities. Increase the garrison size, then raise taxes.
And hope the Berbers leave me alone. Which I doubt they will.

Only problem is that by the time I am done doing this, I'll be more in debt than the USA under Georgie Bush.

Is it meant to be this brutal?

Any suggestions?

[MathiasOfAthens]

Yeah its meant to be that brutal. I manage to rebuild the Roman Empire in Spain, Italy, Dalmatia, and Africa by pulling all my troops back from Gaul and Britian and evactuated about half of the cities in Spain and Africa. I held on the Hippo and Carthage in Africa and once I got the cities stable I focused on economy and reclaiming the rest of the cities in Africa. After I got Africa reconquered in about 20 turns from start my economy had a major boost and the berbers typically left me alone. Africa is the most stable part of the empire and also the most beneficial to the economy so it must be protected at all cost.

In Spain at game start I pulled back all my troops and evacuated most cities except two or three on the eastern coast, Including Gades. In held on to those as long as I could typically but mainly just focused on stablizing Africa before I sent Armies from Rome to retake Iberia.

Italy the hardest part because you have Barbarian armies infesting the continent so its basically a divide and conquer policy you want to pursue. Try to avoid fixed battles, and work toward winning seiges. If you have a large enough army avoid fighting gothic stacks together. Pursue diplomacy wherever available.

Gaul is impossible to defend.

[Sardaukar One]

I think we are talking about two different mods.
In this one the WRE doesn't have any gallic provinces. Its the break off Gallic Empire instead.

I am about 80 k in the hole right now. Six turns in.
I sold off all the buildings I could in the cities I abandoned and built ports in as many cities as I could. That helped slow the descent into debt.

I have wiped out half the gothic stacks in Italy.
I inadvertendly ambushed one group and tore them a new one.
And I wiped out two more stacks. They just seem to be wandering around Italy rather aimlessly.

I don't think I will be able to hold onto Spain.

I still have all of the starting African provinces. But I guess that will depend on what the Berbers do. And if the Vandals cross into Africa or not.

[PSEUDO ROMANUS]

Good luck with your campaign! It'll be hard but if you manage to succeed, then you should try the WRE in Rio's mod. It is a nightmare (but a funny one).

[Sardaukar One]

I'm going to finish it.
I'm just wondering how long it will be before I start making any money again.

Someone has to have some kind of gameplan surely?

What settings should I use by the way?
Normally I play VH campaign, VH battles.
I'm now playing VH/M.
People seem to suggest Hard for campaign and Medium for battles.

[Sardaukar One]

First off, is the WRE losing money turn after turn scripted?

Just when I think I am getting things under control, things get more out of control!

I restarted the WRE campaign.
I decided I was going to hold onto everything I could.
The starting forces in Gaul I turned into one army and besieged Constantine (Gallic Empire) in his capitol at Arelate. Going to wait him out.
The rest of the troops I sent into Northern Italy.

In Italy, most of the military is in the North. I made one field army and used the rest to reinforce garrisons and combine with the remainder of the troops moved from Gaul into a small reserve force which I have recently had to send North to Vindelicorum in Raetia in case the Almanni try something.
With the newly formed field army, I sent them south to deal with the Goths.

In Europe, I split the two armies up. One army I used to bulk up the garrisons of Sirmium, Aquincum and Carruntum. The other I shipped to Italy to help fight the Goths.

In Africa, I removed all the troops from the forts and headed them into the cities. I actually didn't realize that there is a land bridge between Arfica and Spain until a Vandal army showed up in north Africa.
In any event, I had been moving what troops I could towards this part of Africa with the aim of shipping them over to Carthago Nova from Caesarea.

In Spain, I abandoned Corduba and moved all those troops into Carthago Nova. I have been attacked twice in Carthago Nova and both times I have wiped the floor with the Vandals. This has apparently derailed their Africa plans as the armies heading towards Africa are now detouring to Carthago Nova.

Right now I am one turn away from taking Arelate.
I am about 80k in the hole right now.
Two vandal armies are moving on Carthago Nova. If I can beat them, there doesn't seem to be much left in southern spain. I have two full stack armies I can swing into Spain, though most of the units aren't upto much.

In Italy, I have wiped out five of the six Gothic armies. Only Alaric remains.
I intially tried to bait them into attacking me. They only did this once and left me alone the rest of the time. Consequently, I had to attack them in order to free up these two field armies.

And why did I have to free up these two armies so quickly?
Just when things are going good, the ERE decides to stick its oar into my waters. They are on the verge of attacking me, and I am just flabbergasted.
What on earth are the Huns doing that means the ERE has two full stack armies it can swing after me?
What about the Sassanids?
Its ridiculous, but it does give me some juicy prospects to go after.

Can someone please tell me if I will ever make money as the WRE?

[MathiasOfAthens]

After u eliminate the goths from italy and stabilize africa then ur see you economy increase. It happen for me.
________
W116

[Pompeius Magnus]

After u eliminate the goths from italy and stabilize africa then ur see you economy increase. It happen for me.

exactly. and please don't make the mistake and disband (dozens of) armies - this would be a-historic and it is really not very helpfull. Those troops are missing on important frontiers.
Well the romans disbanded armies from time to time in the case of (army)uprisings. Not reliable regiments were send home and so on. Also Justinian did it, but that's another time era.

Due to the fact that Limitanei troops rebeled sometimes and refused the service in the case of long-time military operations (far away from home) I never use them to march from e.g. Italy to North Africa. Also from gaul to Illyria etc...
Background: Those troops got a more and more local character and sometimes they had no knowledge about the idea of the empires' spirit. They had families and established cities and larger villages arround their castras (castles) or burgis. However, of course they were sometimes (not always!!)deployed on battlefield if a battle occured near the fortress.
That means you can retreat your Limitanei troops in central spain. Retreat them to Nova Carthago. But you shouldn't evacuate them to Africa or Italy.
(these are only my house-rules).
In reality they never would agreeeven if they are "romans".

Even the real field armies (Comitatenses) had sometimes problems to move to other continents or countries...

Anyway: after years of military defense your (WRE)army will be smaller and smaller (shranking). And you will earn some money in the future. Money was a big problem in the late antique. The great Aetius for example collected money from his senatorial friends to deploy an army against Attila and to bribe other gentiles.
Complicated. But that makes the late antique so exciting

Best regards

[CIaagent11]

and please don't make the mistake and disband (dozens of) armies - this would be a-historic and it is really not very helpfull. Those troops are missing on important frontiers.

If you do, you make money from the first turn.
Maybe not entirely realistic, but makes it more playable.

Some of that cavalry is costing 500 a turn and if you don't use them for a few turns that's pretty expensive.

[Sardaukar One]

To MathiasofAthens, we are talking about the same mod.
My bad!

I haven't had a chance to play recently, but I do leave the auxilia and millites pretty much where they started the game.
I don't move them much at all. Rarely further than a neighbouring province.
Except in Africa, where I have shuttled about a dozen of them into western africa and spain. I don't have a choice really. I need soldiers asap in order to try and get cities and stop from further drowning in debt.
I am 120 k in the hole right now. Just three years into the campaign.

Other units facing re-deployment are the six starting units of Plumpatarii in Europe. They are heading to Africa and Spain. Those are the only places I can recruit them in my starting provinces. Thats sufficient validation for me to move them. Plus they will give me a core of a pretty good army to fight the Vandals in spain depending on what the berbers do. So I hope.

I have also moved all Foderatii units from Africa and the Isles to west Africa and Spain. I replaced them with Auxilia and a few ubits of Milites.

To be frank, its not like any of my armies are that far away from anything really.

I did a little test run where I moved armies to take cities to see when I would stop losing money. I took Argentoratum, Corduba and Narbo. Just marched armies there and auto resolved everthing else. Once I had taken them, I was only losing about 1-3 k per turn. So I figure I need to take a minimum of four more cities to start digging out of the financial hole I am in.

On the bad side, the Berbers started to get cute and had an army looming in central africa near Caesarea.
Caesarea is my depot for reinforcing(I run the gauntlet with my navy to Carthago Nova) Spain, so fortunately I have a few troops there. Plus I formed a mobile army(half a stack) of nothing but cavalry units(javs) to deal with brigands etc not too far away. Basically the starting cavalry units in africa minus the foderatii cav which is now in spain.
Combined with the units at Caesarea I should be okay vs the Berbers.

Plus the Huns are looming. In Noricum, during my test run to see how many more cities I needed to start making money, I did fight one battle vs the Huns on a river.
I destroyed almost the whole army, but I took some casualties.
Without being able to recruit new units or replenish depleted units, I figure that I can't afford more than three or four battles like this before I am done for. This army isn't that good.

I have a spare army for lack of a better description nearby in Illyria.
I have them there so the ERE doesn't get cute. I have a numbers edge anyway, but not much of one. This "spare" army gives me a big numbers edge.

I had hoped to send them out to Gaul and possibly Spain. Another field army would really help. Even as nothing more than garrison troops just to free up my current field armies. My two best field armies are actually in Gaul.
The next best is the spare army I am droning on about.
I figure I will probably use this army to replace the Noricum army.
Break up the Noricum army and use of them to be garrison units for Gaul to free up the armies there.

In Spain I plan to retake Gades. I can make one decent army out of the troops I have there. Especially if I can get the Plumbatarii out there soon.
Maybe try to finish off the vandals and retake spain.

[Antiochos VII Sidetes]

Interesting, to say the least. Watch out for the ERE, those guys are tricky bastards. They'd betray you in a second...

[Sardaukar One]

I wiped out the Goths and am doing the same to the Vandals.
Though taking out the Vandals has been much harder. I was able to wipe out a couple of their armies when they tried to siege Carthago Nova and then they foolishly attacked me on a bridge crossing. Otherwise things might not be so rosy. I am inflicting maximum casualties for little loss. A key considering I have no money.
Currently the Vandals are on the verge of having two cities left in western Spain. I have a third city under siege and am about to take it.

I have taken Trans alpine Gaul. I currently have one of the Gallic cities under siege(Aquitaine in MTW) and have another army heading for central Gaul.
The Gallic Empire will soon only have the channel cities left.
I am starting to get out of debt, albeit very slowly. I was 132 K in debt and its now 128k two turns later.
Big whoopy right!

What exactly does stabilize Africa mean?
I have no money! My economy is being run by Georgus us Bushus right now.
The only thing I can do is try to take what I can to boost my economy.

Are you saying I should have gone after the Berbers first?
With hindsight, that doesn't seem practical to me. I have faced multiple attacks from the Vandals. Just one from the Berbers.
If there was no landbridge between Africa and Spain I might have done that.
The Berbers are the weaker of the two. I beat them off with a rubbish army really.
But there is a landbridge and the Vandals started attacking Africa.

[Lord Agelmar]

I think just getting the riots under control in Africa is what they mean. I had several cities rebel there and then after retaking them was able to make them profitable cities which again helped stabalize the WRE economy.

[Sardaukar One]

I moved all my troops from the forts into the cities.
I did have one city that had a riot. The most western of the cities I think.
Anyhow, I lowered the taxes and got troops to this city the following turn.
No more riots. After awhile, I was able to raise taxes in some of these cities.
Otherwise, I have no clue what stabilizing Africa means considering my money woes.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Usually letting them rebel and then seizing them again and exterminating the population usually quells any further unrest and does wonders for the economy in a couple years after. However, if you dont have an army strong enough to do this then...
________
Alexxa

[Pompeius Magnus]

if it's "more playable" after disbanding important units (or mounted troops in general) is debatable and in my opinion doubtfull. In the case that you want get a positive cash flow it is necessary to disband a lot of units (and not 4 or 5 mounted troops).

In this case you remove and reduce the chance by yourself of active campaigns. The result is an empire which is passive automatically.
And it is for 410AD totally a-historic.

But I say that again: everybody should find his own strategy, however, if you want play historical you disband nothing.

[julianus heraclius]

if it's "more playable" after disbanding important units (or mounted troops in general) is debatable and in my opinion doubtfull. In the case that you want get a positive cash flow it is necessary to disband a lot of units (and not 4 or 5 mounted troops).

In this case you remove and reduce the chance by yourself of active campaigns. The result is an empire which is passive automatically.
And it is for 410AD totally a-historic.

But I say that again: everybody should find his own strategy, however, if you want play historical you disband nothing.

I agree with Pompeius, the challenge is to play with what you have got. This is what I have tried to do with IJ, to give you both limitanei and field army troops to defend the empire. So you basically have one turn to construct buildings, recruit new units or retrain existing units before the economy goes backwards.

But it will not stay back ward forever. In the meantime you have an army that you can use both protect your empire and expand it if necessary. Of course you will also gain money by the attrition of your army in battle. This is the way I prefer to play, it also makes you value your army and you elite troops as you will find it very hard to recruit new ones in the short to medium term.

Happy playing

[Pompeius Magnus]

...it also makes you value your army and you elite troops...

exactly.
esp. for IJ I know that you made a great job concerning the historical authenticity for starting positions.
Even from this side it doesn't make sense to disband those troops.

An emperor who removed complete Roman units was Justinian. And we know today that this wasn't his best idea.

[Coni]

yup. I also think that such a strategy of removing units is wrong. At least from the strategical point. All units are very important. Especially those of my mobile field armies.

[Pompeius Magnus]

I mean everybody makes his own (house)rules. That's absolutely Ok.
Even long marches with Limitanei troops (e.g. from Gaul to Illyria or from Africa to Spain) is an absolutely "no-go" for me.
When Julian get the order to take the mobile field army and march to the east (Persia) to support the emperor, the army refused the service.
And this was the mobile field army. That was the reality in the late antique.