Portugal and Spain - The Best Late Tercio Armies

[Peruvian_Lord]

I've played with Portugal in a Long Campaign and let me tell you so far they have the best units for my strategy.

I use the Tercio Formation (Pike and Shot) aligning Aventuros (pikeman, even better than the swiss pikemen or the landsknecht from the Holy Roman Emp.) with a mix of Pavise Crossbowmen and Almughavars and the late period with the Portuguese Arquebusiers. (which are also somewhat good in Melee and excellent shooters)

Also I aligned Jinetes as skirmishers and Mounted Crossbowmen. For Heavy Cavalry are the Portuguese Knights (They are no Royal Mamluks or Conquistadores but they sorta get the job of charging done)

For Infantry I got the Swordsmen Militia, They get the scraps left from the Aventuros :-P

When using the Tercio Formation, I found a really good and flexible army which is as good defending as they are attacking.

The main diference between the Spanish and the Portuguese Tercios are the balance of units.

While Portuguese have Very Strong Pikes and Gunpowder units, they lack of good Heavy Cavalry and Infantry. (in America, you can get Conquistadores but that's another story) They are just okay.

And the Spaniards have a Good Defensive Pike, Good Musketeers and Outstanding Cavalry with the Gendarmes and the Sword and Buckler Man.

[Exarch]

can we get a screenshot of this famous formation?

[Xamt]

i have tried using a similar formation playing the spanish (they actually had tercios )

what i did was put my pikemen in a square block formation and put my missile troops (archers, musketeers) right in front of them so that the last line of the missile troops was touching with the first line of the tercios

it worked out pretty nicely if the enemy wasnt heavy on missile units or siege engines and since spanish musketeers outrange evertyhing sort of siege engines it meant that the enemy had to come to you

the only "disadvantage" to that (apart from being dead boring) is that if u over do it (and have 3/4 of ur army being pikemen and musketeers) there is always the chance that enough enemy foot soldiers will make it to melee with you and if u havent caused enough casualties u run the risk of being overrun (musketeers reload slower than a turtle running in slow motion)

but i found that 3-4 units of pikemen with as many musketeers work greatly (in that formation) and u can tailor the rest of your army to suit ur needs (a couple of cannons, a couple of heavy infantry units and the rest cavalry)

[Sir_Viriato]

can we get a screenshot of this famous formation?

You can get one of mine...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[A Demented Goldfish]

who cares charge and kill is what i dos

[Barry]

You can get one of mine...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Is that not just pikemen with missiles in front of them?

[Sir_Viriato]

Is that not just pikemen with missiles in front of them?

It´s far more than that... it´s not missiles it´s musqueteers...and it´s not pikemen it´s aventuros...

From that angle yes... but you can see the other units in the hud. If you miss it, cavalry is in the flanks and heavy infantry is behind aventuros...

[Sodbuster]

The point of the formation is that your missile units can't be charged. Any unit charging them just runs into the pikes.

[Sir_Viriato]

The point of the formation is that your missile units can't be charged. Any unit charging them just runs into the pikes.

Correct.

It´s almost impossible to attack this formation head-on. Musqueteers scare enemy trops when they are charging, and then they fall back. Aventuros hold the line, and if needed you send Conquistadores to advance through the pikes to rout them. To avoid being flanked i use my cavalry and Dismouted Portuguese Knights (they are very good against cavalry) in the flanks to stop any attemp.

Perfect formation on late period... but the flanks must be protected...

PS: I love when cavalry try to kill my musqueteers...

[Pope Gregorius I]

So then how would one defeat this formation?

[Sir_Viriato]

So then how would one defeat this formation?

Well, some highlighted professional can do it... i already lose with this formation. I know how to defeat the formation, but that don´t mean i can do it... it´s really a hard nut to crack...

You can always try to win in missile, then you make them advance, but it´s difficult to win against musketeers. Most factions with musketeers don´t have good pikemen, and this means that you can charge them without any worries. The only ones that have them is Portugal and Spain, but the difference is: Aventuros are far more better than Tercios...

Even if you could win in missile this army can attack very effectively, because aventuros have a good attack without using their pikes.

The other option is assemble a army without buying any missile unit, and then make a rush in one flank... i lost this way... because i don´t move my formation head-on in time...

[Psychonaut]

So then how would one defeat this formation?

lots and lots of cannons......hehehehe

[Old_Scratch]

So then how would one defeat this formation?

By being prepared to face it. If you're playing against a faction like Spain in the late or all periods, and you don't have a musket faction, you absolutely need great cavalry and infantry. Denmark is a late favorite for me because Norse war clerics are exceedingly powerful and cheap even with armor and weapon upgrades.

Light cavalry can be decisive here too. The first thing I do is send my mounted xbows to their flank. Sometimes, if the muskets arent right inside the pikes, but are in front of them, you can still charge them and get away. Also, on the flank the muskets will have to wheel their entire formation around to face you bringing much of them away from the protection of the pikes. Another good target for light cavalry. When they are facing the flank you can simply all charge now with your infantry facing th pikes and cavalry for the rear. You'll engage before the muskets have time to turn to face you again. This is useful if he has light cav or mounted xbows of his own that can stop your own light cav. You'll need to act fast.

If he doesn't, you can continue around his rear with the mounted xbows and start shooting up expensive targets. He'll be forced to bring his muskets back to chase you off. If he doesn't also bring the pikes, or he doesn't keep them close enough while moving, charge them and fall back. One card of muskets down. Keep harassing him until his formation is disorganized and charge.

This is where the preparation comes in. When you charge you need to be confident that you will defeat him in melee. All your money should have been spent on infantry and cavalry upgrades, with only peasant xbows for foot ranged. It's easy from here, engage the pikes from the front with infantry and use your heavy cavalry to flank. Should be a mass rout.

[Sodbuster]

The way to beat them is to charge both flanks with heavy infantry and get behind with cavalry, routing the pikes and muskets. It's an easy formation to beat in the woods, or if it's disorganized. Another strategy is to run peasants or other cheap units in front of your heavy infantry and stop them at the last second, so your heavy infantry make full contact with their pike lines. Push into the pikes and you'll do OK. Use whatever light infantry survives to watch your flanks. The disadvantage to using the tercio formation is that it ties up two unit slots per line position, which can lead to it being enveloped by an army with the same number of infantry but no ranged.

[Sir_Viriato]

Lol. You are wrong this is the best formation in late period and the hardest one to beat...like i said cavalry and dismouted portuguese knight in the flanks to stop flanking attemps... or do you think that only you have cavalry... And a good player will never disorganize their formation...

Peasents, for want you will waste your money and a slot in peasents... and even when some players only choose melee infantry and cavalry... i usually win because musketeers do a lot of damage in their morale and their men strengh... and if they are winning a flank fight i just send the other units to attack them from behind because if they put their attack strengh in a flank fight, some of my men will be free to move... this is not against AI...

[Barry]

Then this should be in Multiplayer where you will be challenged by the best. Sodbuster makes some valid points, by protecting your best with fodder then your best will not be depleted, the double envelopment would work if you had enough men, divide and conquer. Charge into the portugese what ever with heavy infantry, win the cavalry battle then you are free to continue the charge into the behind of the pikemen and then straight through the musketmen.

[Sir_Viriato]

Then this should be in Multiplayer where you will be challenged by the best. Sodbuster makes some valid points, by protecting your best with fodder then your best will not be depleted, the double envelopment would work if you had enough men, divide and conquer. Charge into the portugese what ever with heavy infantry, win the cavalry battle then you are free to continue the charge into the behind of the pikemen and then straight through the musketmen.

LOL. I use this formation on multiplayer and i won most of the times... i´m not a noob and i play against all kind of players... good, average, professional, and i usually win with this formation...

Yes it´s true that my formation is spread but if you tried to attack me in one point that could be your defeat because at the same time pikemen hold the line, i call my other flank to smash your army from behind and in their flanks...and i usually win in cavalry fight because i use it wisely... and i have very good infantry and pikes to deal with it...
Don´t think that if you flank this formation you have the game won, because it have very good units and like i said the other flank to attack you...

Of course any formation is useless if the player don´t know their weakness and strenghs... or even if don´t know how to manage correctly their men...

Remember that in multiplayer you can only choose 20 units, you have limited money and rules like: no artillery and máx 8 cavalry including 2 horse archer...

PS: Portugal and Spain are very popular and wanted in multiplayer in all periods, especially in late period...

you need something that can winstand the fire at the beginning. i suggest a light calavry charge to the scare the missile units behind the pikemen. then send infantry and missile.

You are right. If you can winstand the fire at the beginning you have the advantage... but this is very hard to achieve...

The tactic of light cavalry don´t work because musketeers are very close to pikemen and if the cavalry charge the musketeers they will fall back and your light cav will be lost, then you can call the musketeers again... The musketeers need to be in front of pikemen... and they don´t get scared when they are in this formation...

[Watercress]

you need something that can winstand the fire at the beginning. i suggest a light calavry charge to the scare the missile units behind the pikemen. then send infantry and missile.

[[SVK]Jakob]

Portugal looks like it has Finnish flags

[Sodbuster]

I didn't say it was easy to beat the formation in a one on one on grassy plain. In the woods it's much easier to take than on. If you have an ally, you can rush your army to assist against their enemy because it will take a lot longer to get a tercio formation over to help (or you can leave your tercio formation disorganized as you run over). Musketeers are kind of buggy in some situations, and can be beaten by archers out of their LOS, high on a hill, and in melee. I once beat a Spanish tercio in multiplayer on grassy plain, simply by going as Venice and charging with a lot of Venetian heavy infantry and a mass of other infantry to flank. I was able to win the cavalry engagement because I kept some spearmen close to my cavalry, forcing my enemy to stay back while I repeatedly charged his flanks. That's multiplayer though, and this is not the multiplayer forum.

In singleplayer, you can't go wrong with a tercio because the computer is too stupid to beat it. Just like you can't go wrong with almost any other formation. It's not a hard formation to use as it has some of the best guys in the game, pikes and muskets. It is not the best for every situation though. It's most useful for defense.