Beating Macedon as the Greek City States

[war91]

Macedon army:

4 Phalangites (Phalanx units)
2 Thureophoroi (heavy peltast)
1 Slinger (slinger)
1 Hoplite (In XGM Hoplites are heavy infantry. No phalanx)
1 Heavy Cavalry
1 Thessalian Cavalry (javelin)

My (planned) army:
4 slingers
3 Cretan archers
3 Militia cavalry (javelin)

I know I'm going to use slingers (AP) to take out his phalanx units and the hoplite, the archers to take out his cavalry, but I don't know what infantry to use. I have doryphoroi (pretty weak spearmen), Thureophoroi, and militia Phalangites (probably wouldn't be much use here).

Any thoughts?

[TM Is Back]

1 General (That Spartan guy not the faction leader that other guy)
3-5 Militia Phalangites
6-10 Thureophoroi
3-4 Marines
Maybe some slingers or archers, i dont use them often. Atleast not when fighting Macedon.

That's my army which i always conquer the whole of Macadon.

[war91]

Any help with formations?

I'm guessing the militia phalangites will pin them down (but won't they suck against the regular phalangites?), while my Thureophoroi go around, throw a volley, and charge. Great.

What do I use against the enemy cavalry and slingers?

[Kara Kolyo]

What have you done with your spartan guards? sent them to a certain spa - hot whatever was it's name? When fighting macedon early on they are quite important as a flanking killing machine..
against cavalry and slingers use more slingers and cretan archers, or some hoplites.

[war91]

I won with 4 militia phalanx; 3 heavy peltast (too lazy to type the name); 1 general's bodyguard, and two cretan archers.

It was a heroic victory, but I only had 486 men left (both started with 961). So I don't think I did as well as I should have. Did I mention I played on easy?

[Gaius Flavius Belisarius]

Do whatever you can to wear down and obliterate their own skirmishers to make the phalanx vulnerable from the side and rear. They often get cocky and break formation to try and attack isolated units. Use that over eagerness to swarm and rout them. After you've disposed of their ranged units get your own Thureophoroi and slingers around their flanks and rear. They'll break the continuous line in an attempt to get at your men leaving the individual units now exposed on the flanks and rear. From there on out it's simply divide and conquer.

[war91]

That was an enormous failure.

I had four militia phalangites, two thurorphoroi, two slingers, four cretan archers.

My layout:

MP - militia phalangites
Th - Thurorphoroi
S - Slinger
CA - Cretan archers

..................MPMPMPMP......................
.............Th..CACACACA...Th................
......................S...S........................

Here's what happened:

The cavalry broke off as usual, and my slingers and archers quickly routed them. Then I had a slinger and two archers shoot at their Thurorphoroi, and another slinger and two archers shoot at their other one. This was to rout them so my own Th could flank the phalangites and kill them.

Nothing. I fired round after round, and not only were they not dying, but they weren't routing either. Finally out of sheer frustration, I had all of them fire on one unit of thurorphoroi to kill them, and once again they didn't rout and not many died. Four cretan archers and two slinger; nothing. Finally I just flanked the Greek hoplite with my Th, and with a rear attack, I realised that they didn't rout or anything. I lost the battle, Horribly.

I don't understand it: How do you flank and rout them so fast? I hear everyone talking about how they routed an elite enemy unit in seconds by a rear charge, on very hard, and win. I can't rout them with a direct charge, not even after a while of fighting, on Easy.

This sucks.

Edit: @GFB: Tried that. The enemy didn't rout, not many of them died (even with all those archers), and even when I did flank the hoplite unit they didn't rout. I quit before it was over, but I knew all my units would be dead.

[Gaius Flavius Belisarius]

XGM, makes Thureophoroi too invulnerable to arrow fire because they have such a large shield. Honestly you should probably just try and go toe to toe with them with your own Thureophoroi, as archers will be ineffective unless you can get them in the rear. Militia cavalry in numbers is another good tactic to quickly isolate units and take them down.

[war91]

A bit better. This time four MP held them in place, while my archers attacked their peltasts (rather badly, again. Why do they suck so bad it seems?). Meanwhile, I used two units to take down the enemy heavy cavalry, and my archers took out the missile cavalry. I then attacked their peltast with my own peltast, and flanked with the cavalry (those peltast I learned are strong). In the end, I won. But I still lost 302 men. But at least I won.

But I still wonder why my own units seem to be so ineffective where they are needed, and why enemy units seem so effective in places where they shouldn't be.

[Gaius Flavius Belisarius]

Simply put it's the computer which can control things much more quickly and efficiently than a computer can.

[Barend]

I'm playing a campaign with Thrace against Macedon, and just found out that Greek Hoplites (the mercenary type), when forming a shieldwall, are really effective against phalangites. The just run trough the gaps between their pikes, and the phalangites are done for.
Maybe you could use some mercenary Basternae to fight against the thurephoroi? Worked for me. Try to find Thracian mercenaries, they're supperior to the Greek ones of the same unit type.
Good Luck!

[war91]

What? Can you rephrase that? Did you mean:

"Simply put it's the computer which can control things much more quickly and efficiently than a human can."

Or:

"Simply put it's the human which can control things much more quickly and efficiently than a computer can." (Doubt it )

[Gaius Flavius Belisarius]

What? Can you rephrase that? Did you mean:

"Simply put it's the computer which can control things much more quickly and efficiently than a human can."

Or:

"Simply put it's the human which can control things much more quickly and efficiently than a computer can." (Doubt it )

Haha sorry, it's been a long day. The first option is the one I intended.

[Scutarii]

Are you using the pause function? It helps a lot when micromanaging, and too prevent you leaving a side of the battlefield to the enemies' mercy by neglecting it.

With the greeks, use militia phalangites for the center. They are your anvil. Theuropheuroi should be deployed directly beside, on either side to protect the side of the phalanx. Take them out of skirmish mode, you need them to hold the line and counter charge the enemy Theuropheuroi/flank the enemy phalanx. Your slingers should be in front of the battle line, or as part of it on the flanks. This enables more shots to be fired, plus quick flanking of the enemy infantry. You need the archers to fire and rout the enemy Thessalians, they're bloody annoying. And where's your general? At the start of a GCS campaign, having that faction leader spartan plus Antigonos can definitely help you. No cavalry disables the hammer and anvil function of the Greek army, plus leaves you with no viable counter to enemy skirmishers.

The battle should go with you engaging the phalanx with yours. Archers should fire on the Thessalians, or the enemy skirmishers if out of range, and the same thing applies to your slingers. Theuropheuroi should either flank the phalanx or chase the enemy Theuropheuroi/Hoplites. Assuming you've taken a general unit (at least one), use that to smash the enemy phalangite line. Once routed, the battle is in the bag. Catch the enemy Theuropheuroi with your own, and watch your general smash their behinds as well. The Thessalians should already be gone at this point, and lets assume you also brought a second general.

If I also assume the two generals you brought are your factions heir and leader (which they should be, Kleomenes and Antigonos), then the leader should engage and destroy the enemy heavy cav, at some point (preferably early) in the battle. The two cavs can then work in unison to support the phalanx line and the Theuropheuroi. Hope that helps, just how I would fight it.

You may want to try bringing more infantry to pin their own next time.
PS. 1300th post!

[war91]

Are you using the pause function? It helps a lot when micromanaging, and too prevent you leaving a side of the battlefield to the enemies' mercy by neglecting it.

With the greeks, use militia phalangites for the center. They are your anvil. Theuropheuroi should be deployed directly beside, on either side to protect the side of the phalanx. Take them out of skirmish mode, you need them to hold the line and counter charge the enemy Theuropheuroi/flank the enemy phalanx. Your slingers should be in front of the battle line, or as part of it on the flanks. This enables more shots to be fired, plus quick flanking of the enemy infantry. You need the archers to fire and rout the enemy Thessalians, they're bloody annoying. And where's your general? At the start of a GCS campaign, having that faction leader spartan plus Antigonos can definitely help you. No cavalry disables the hammer and anvil function of the Greek army, plus leaves you with no viable counter to enemy skirmishers.

The battle should go with you engaging the phalanx with yours. Archers should fire on the Thessalians, or the enemy skirmishers if out of range, and the same thing applies to your slingers. Theuropheuroi should either flank the phalanx or chase the enemy Theuropheuroi/Hoplites. Assuming you've taken a general unit (at least one), use that to smash the enemy phalangite line. Once routed, the battle is in the bag. Catch the enemy Theuropheuroi with your own, and watch your general smash their behinds as well. The Thessalians should already be gone at this point, and lets assume you also brought a second general.

If I also assume the two generals you brought are your factions heir and leader (which they should be, Kleomenes and Antigonos), then the leader should engage and destroy the enemy heavy cav, at some point (preferably early) in the battle. The two cavs can then work in unison to support the phalanx line and the Theuropheuroi. Hope that helps, just how I would fight it.

You may want to try bringing more infantry to pin their own next time.

I'll have to try that, even though it kind of sounds like what I've been doing this whole time (in that last battle).

[war91]

Nothing is working!

That last one was going so well! I had my militia cavalry attacking them in the rear (which did absolutely NOTHING!), Then I charged them in the rear. And at times my units just routed! My horse militia just seemed to start routing for no apparent reason, I faced the enemy god Phalanx (which routed my militia phalangite, and withstood a charge by three of my cavalry, at the rear and BOTH flanks) which routed my other militia phalangite (even though they seemed to be doing well) and then everything fell apart.

Why am I having such harder time routing these people (with rear charges and everything) on easy than people playing on very hard? What do I need to defeat this super army? As nothing I do seems to work, or lets me win with a whole lot of dead men.

[Scutarii]

What I noticed was you had your Theuropheuroi behind the phalanx. They should be part of the same line. You also had your slingers behind the Theuropheuroi, so they need to be moved up to be effective. You also didn't bring cav.

If your having trouble, spend more time building up the army. Make sure of a full stack, and you'll most likely outnumber the Maks early in the campaign.

[war91]

What I noticed was you had your Theuropheuroi behind the phalanx. They should be part of the same line. You also had your slingers behind the Theuropheuroi, so they need to be moved up to be effective. You also didn't bring cav.

If your having trouble, spend more time building up the army. Make sure of a full stack, and you'll most likely outnumber the Maks early in the campaign.

I put them a little back, to charge the enemy trying to flank, and also just so I could get the charge bonus in.

I forgot the fact that my phalanx are all militia, unlike their phalanx.

[Gaius Flavius Belisarius]

Oh, and use the pause function, it helps even the playing field.

[war91]

It worked like a charm! In fact, I got a heroic victory.

I took out the javelin cavalry, and took out their heavy cavalry (I even brought my own) as well. Then I engaged their heavy peltasts with my own, and brought the heavy cavalry down on them and the hoplites. Killing them.

Then, I charged into the back of the phalangites again and again, and routed all of them. What followed was a mix of stress relief, revenge, and enjowment.

My army: 1141
Their army: 961

My remaining: 843
Their remaining: 53

That was such a hard fight, even on easy. I guess they just had the better quality troops.