proof that the Bible shouldn't be taken literly (if still needed to:))

[Valerius Tiberius]

well, according to the Bible, there were Adam and Eve, they had Kain and Abel.
but then what?
in order to have another baby, one of the two must had have sex with Eve, or Adam needed to have a daughter, where after he or one of his sons had to have sex with her or Eve in order to have another baby.
so how is this possible?
also, when Kain killed Abel, the Bible says that Kain and his wife had a son (Enoch) but where did this wife come from :hmmm:

or did God just create more people then Adam and Eve?
or did He just allowed to have sex with your mother/daughter/sister ?

(all of this is according to the Bible, it is totally possible that this all never happened and that there is another theorie, though this is not the topic to discuss this )

tnx!!

[Zenith Darksea]

It's certainly true that Genesis is allegorical. However, you must remember that the 'Bible' as we know it in a single book did not exist until the early Middle Ages. The texts that make up the Bible were written separately by separate authors each with their own literary aims. So Genesis is indeed allegorical, but the Gospels (for example) are supposed to be taken as broadly exact chronicles of actual events, as the authors state within the text.

[Darth_Cubsdude]

Genesis was not written by multiple people, it was written by Moses who also wrote Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
And In order for the human population to grow, the kids of Adam and Eve had to have married each other. There wouldn't have been any other way. No genetic problems would have occurred, as they would have today. Even if you can't marry a sibling today, God would have made an exception in the beginning, otherwise the human race would have been a dead end.
Genesis isn't strictly an allegorical book, it can be successfully interpreted litterally.

[Pontifex Maximus]

It's certainly true that Genesis is allegorical. However, you must remember that the 'Bible' as we know it in a single book did not exist until the early Middle Ages. The texts that make up the Bible were written separately by separate authors each with their own literary aims. So Genesis is indeed allegorical, but the Gospels (for example) are supposed to be taken as broadly exact chronicles of actual events, as the authors state within the text.

What about conflicting stories that occurr in every book? Some books have infancy narratives, some do not, some books are more specific about the Passion than others. What about things that are included in one Gospel but left out in another?

[♔Old Dragoon♔]

What about conflicting stories that occurr in every book? Some books have infancy narratives, some do not, some books are more specific about the Passion than others. What about things that are included in one Gospel but left out in another?

Ok, I will try to explain. I have to give you the short version, and will update later. The gospels cannot be read like they all tell the exact details, and if they don't then they contradict. Together they tell the whole story from different perspectives, like at a sports game. Someone's view from the balcony is going to be different from accross the arena from the front row. However, compile the fans comments, and you'll have a more complete view of what happened at the event. They will tell of the same game, but with a different perspective. The gospels were also written by different authors, obviously, to a specific target audience back in the day. Sorry, all I have time for at the moment.

[Leutrim]

It's certainly true that Genesis is allegorical. However, you must remember that the 'Bible' as we know it in a single book did not exist until the early Middle Ages. The texts that make up the Bible were written separately by separate authors each with their own literary aims. So Genesis is indeed allegorical, but the Gospels (for example) are supposed to be taken as broadly exact chronicles of actual events, as the authors state within the text.

Thats right. Written by monks, from different factions, different rival factions, each changing the rules of the holy book to benefit themselves, their economies, their personal interests.

May I add that the Quran as I hear hasnt been changed one word since it was written 1,400 years ago or so.

[Green]

May I add that the Quran as I hear hasnt been changed one word since it was written 1,400 years ago or so.

Unlikely. Wait until textual critics get their hands on the Qur'an.

[swhunter]

well, according to the Bible, there were Adam and Eve, they had Kain and Abel.
but then what?
in order to have another baby, one of the two must had have sex with Eve, or Adam needed to have a daughter, where after he or one of his sons had to have sex with her or Eve in order to have another baby.
so how is this possible?
also, when Kain killed Abel, the Bible says that Kain and his wife had a son (Enoch) but where did this wife come from :hmmm:

or did God just create more people then Adam and Eve?
or did He just allowed to have sex with your mother/daughter/sister ?

(all of this is according to the Bible, it is totally possible that this all never happened and that there is another theorie, though this is not the topic to discuss this )

tnx!!

simple answer : Adam and eve had another son called Seth. and after that more children. and the children had children ect ect.
Cain found a wife but it gives no account of the time that passed by when he got her.

Cain had a wife later in his years, because of the time allowed the children would grow up.
Is this incest ? by today's standards yes.
But this also was repeated after the flood of Noah.
and after 100 years or so you would be married to your brothers cousins cousin. So it wouldn't be long after it wasn't in your direct family.

Lets face it, if on a island and there was just two of you. What would you do ?
Believe what like.

[Shi Huangdi]

Ok I'm a Christian and I do take Genesis totally literally.

Here is how it worked. The Bible says that Adam and Eve had "other sons and daughters" in addition to Cain, Abel, and Seth. The sons and daughters intermarried, eventually resulting in a massive population of human beings.

The reason why brother-sister marriage and sex worked back then, was because God placed in Adam and Eve enough genetic information for all the different attributes that we see in modern man. There were genes for every skin-color, hair-color, and eye-color. There were genes for every type of feature, and every other attribute that we see in people today. As humans interbred, however, the genetic information became more and more specialized and narrow, and each person had less and less genetic information. That is why we today cannot have sex with our siblings, or the children would have health problems. Back then, however, the huge diversity and amount of information in the genes of just one person was so great that reproduction among siblings was not a problem. There was nothing supernatural about this--it was just the way God created man.

[swhunter]

Ok I'm a Christian and I do take Genesis totally literally.

Here is how it worked. The Bible says that Adam and Eve had "other sons and daughters" in addition to Cain, Abel, and Seth. The sons and daughters intermarried, eventually resulting in a massive population of human beings.

The reason why brother-sister marriage and sex worked back then, was because God placed in Adam and Eve enough genetic information for all the different attributes that we see in modern man. There were genes for every skin-color, hair-color, and eye-color. There were genes for every type of feature, and every other attribute that we see in people today. As humans interbred, however, the genetic information became more and more specialized and narrow, and each person had less and less genetic information. That is why we today cannot have sex with our siblings, or the children would have health problems. Back then, however, the huge diversity and amount of information in the genes of just one person was so great that reproduction among siblings was not a problem. There was nothing supernatural about this--it was just the way God created man.

good point on the genes .
That would be correct.
The process would have start again after the flood of Noah also.

[Simetrical]

well, according to the Bible, there were Adam and Eve, they had Kain and Abel.
but then what?
in order to have another baby, one of the two must had have sex with Eve, or Adam needed to have a daughter, where after he or one of his sons had to have sex with her or Eve in order to have another baby.

You're assuming that they had no other children, but the Bible typically ignores daughters in its genealogies. (Do you think Isaac had twelve sons and only one daughter? And that the only daughter who was mentioned just happened to be mentioned only insofar as she was critically significant to the future of the Jewish nation?) Presumably they married their sisters.

Is this incest ? by today's standards yes.
But this also was repeated after the flood of Noah.

Noah's sons took their wives on the ark with them, so you'd only be forced to have cousin marriages (which aren't really incest, certainly not according to the Bible).

[Darth_Cubsdude]

To add on, the law against close-relation marriages wasn't put into action until Leviticus 18-20. It wasn't up untill then that close-relation marriages could cause genetic problems.

[swhunter]

You're assuming that they had no other children, but the Bible typically ignores daughters in its genealogies. (Do you think Isaac had twelve sons and only one daughter? And that the only daughter who was mentioned just happened to be mentioned only insofar as she was critically significant to the future of the Jewish nation?) Presumably they married their sisters.

Noah's sons took their wives on the ark with them, so you'd only be forced to have cousin marriages (which aren't really incest, certainly not according to the Bible).

Very true ! thank you !
but in these days that would be considered, not a great idea .

[jankren]

Here is how it worked. The Bible says that Adam and Eve had "other sons and daughters" in addition to Cain, Abel, and Seth. The sons and daughters intermarried, eventually resulting in a massive population of human beings.

Eww yucky!

I refuse to believe Im a product of some serious extreme incest done by my great great ancestors.

[Problem Sleuth]

Ok I'm a Christian and I do take Genesis totally literally.

Here is how it worked. The Bible says that Adam and Eve had "other sons and daughters" in addition to Cain, Abel, and Seth. The sons and daughters intermarried, eventually resulting in a massive population of human beings.

The reason why brother-sister marriage and sex worked back then, was because God placed in Adam and Eve enough genetic information for all the different attributes that we see in modern man. There were genes for every skin-color, hair-color, and eye-color. There were genes for every type of feature, and every other attribute that we see in people today. As humans interbred, however, the genetic information became more and more specialized and narrow, and each person had less and less genetic information. That is why we today cannot have sex with our siblings, or the children would have health problems. Back then, however, the huge diversity and amount of information in the genes of just one person was so great that reproduction among siblings was not a problem. There was nothing supernatural about this--it was just the way God created man.

Is that even scientifically correct? The amount of information on genes doesn't decrease significantly (or, rather, when it does, the child never lives because it's missing important information). Wouldn't the number of genes continue to significantly reduce? Usually the most that would happen is a few base pairs (out of 3 billion, mind you) would be removed. More often than it's deleted the DNA is either increased in size, or the section is accidentally put in the wrong place/order.

[Shi Huangdi]

Is that even scientifically correct? The amount of information on genes doesn't decrease significantly (or, rather, when it does, the child never lives because it's missing important information). Wouldn't the number of genes continue to significantly reduce? Usually the most that would happen is a few base pairs (out of 3 billion, mind you) would be removed. More often than it's deleted the DNA is either increased in size, or the section is accidentally put in the wrong place/order.

Yes, that is scientifically accurate. It's the same reason why we have so many different kinds of dogs today, for instance. Science agrees that all breeds of dogs came from one ancestor, right? Bulldogs, terriers, collies, etc., came from one wolf-like ancestor. It's the same with humans. People of all races, etc., came from one ancestor, for the same reason. Genetic information cannot increase; it can only decrease. Just like the genetic information in dogs has become more and more limited (per individual) over the last few thousand years, it's the same with humans. Genetic information cannot reduce to the point where life would be threatened, but it can reduce to the point where feature types, skin color, etc. would be limited.

Eww yucky!

I refuse to believe Im a product of some serious extreme incest done by my great great ancestors.

I thought you were a Muslim--don't Muslims believe basically the same creation account as Christians?

Beren,

Thats the sound of straws being grasped........

So you are a literalist.........Ok, how old is the earth and when do you expect the rapture?

The earth, as we know it today, is between 6000 and 8000 years old. I don't believe there will be a "rapture" as you think of it; but I do believe Christ will return.

Yup, I'm another fundamentalist Christian nutjob

[Sharrow]

"The earth, as we know it today, is between 6000 and 8000 years old. I don't believe there will be a "rapture" as you think of it; but I do believe Christ will return"

I have stone age axe head that is at a minimum 35,000 years old, given the archeological layer it was found in............

A fossil that is over 65 million years old..........

[Lord Condormanius]

The earth, as we know it today, is between 6000 and 8000 years old.

This is the most incredible thing. It completely escapes me how anyone could ever make or believe this kind of claim. It completely disregards the mounds of evidence that we have to the contrary.

[Simetrical]

Yes, that is scientifically accurate. It's the same reason why we have so many different kinds of dogs today, for instance. Science agrees that all breeds of dogs came from one ancestor, right? Bulldogs, terriers, collies, etc., came from one wolf-like ancestor. It's the same with humans. People of all races, etc., came from one ancestor, for the same reason.

All correct, but . . .

Genetic information cannot increase; it can only decrease.

No, that doesn't follow at all. Genetic mutation can involve the creation of entirely new genes, i.e., the expansion of the genome.

Just like the genetic information in dogs has become more and more limited (per individual) over the last few thousand years, it's the same with humans. Genetic information cannot reduce to the point where life would be threatened, but it can reduce to the point where feature types, skin color, etc. would be limited.

Why do you think that dogs have more limited genetic information per individual? The genetic information is the same amount as their ancestor, just different. The same is true for humans. All humans have exactly the same number of genes (pretty much), and that's the same number as our latest common ancestor (pretty much).

[Born To Folk]

Ok I'm a Christian and I do take Genesis totally literally.

Here is how it worked. The Bible says that Adam and Eve had "other sons and daughters" in addition to Cain, Abel, and Seth. The sons and daughters intermarried, eventually resulting in a massive population of human beings.

The reason why brother-sister marriage and sex worked back then, was because God placed in Adam and Eve enough genetic information for all the different attributes that we see in modern man. There were genes for every skin-color, hair-color, and eye-color. There were genes for every type of feature, and every other attribute that we see in people today. As humans interbred, however, the genetic information became more and more specialized and narrow, and each person had less and less genetic information. That is why we today cannot have sex with our siblings, or the children would have health problems. Back then, however, the huge diversity and amount of information in the genes of just one person was so great that reproduction among siblings was not a problem. There was nothing supernatural about this--it was just the way God created man.

*cough* Freak!