Lame Horse archers

[Jesu_follower]

Okay, in RTW my armies consisted of about 80% horse archers, im kinda an addict with them. They were perfect in RTW's mod Europa Barbarorum. And when i started to play M2tw and its many mods i planned on playing with hs's (horse archers) and ruling the world. BUUUUUT they suck; their reaction time sucks, their fire rate sucks, and their speed sucks! For example, I send my HS's at the enemy and they get mutilated! In RTW (and its mods) the HS's would "know" when they were too close, they had a an excellent rate of fire (about 3-4 arrows every 5-10 seconds). In M2tw my HS's charge into the enemy lines as if they where heavy cavalry, and when they do TRY to skirmish they react way too slowly ie they are right in front of the enemy when they BEGIN to turn around. Oh and they fire of one arrow every 10-15 seconds...is anyone else disappointed with HS's, and is there a mod that can correct them...

[Viking Prince]

differant time, differant era.

Also, look at the equipment/armor of the opposing units. This is not the same as several hundred years prior and why should it be the same?

The iberian Jinettes are quite good for the price (javalin though). The Heavy Cav is more the point of the era though. Look at the various stages of horse units with the Russians.

Look at the various factions with mounted crossbows. I know this is not the same as horse archers, but the mounted crossbow units do need to penetrate armor.

[eggthief]

yes skirmish mode isnt working well, but in rtw u had to do practicly nothing because your HA's would outrun anything with their auto pilot and at least u make a chance now when fighting HA armies

[Monsieur Alphonse]

All cavalry armies (80% HAs) are still unbeatable. You just have to know how t use them. Divide your army in three to four groups and surround the enemy. Simply keep some distance and shoot the enemy to pieces. If needed finish them of with some heavy cavalry.

Whenever I pay the Turks my armies consist of 7 Turkomans for speed, 7 Sipahis (can be used as medium cavalry) and some really heavies (Quapukulu). These kind of armies can go on a rampage through lots of catholic armies.

[Leutrim]

All cavalry armies (80% HAs) are still unbeatable. You just have to know how t use them. Divide your army in three to four groups and surround the enemy. Simply keep some distance and shoot the enemy to pieces. If needed finish them of with some heavy cavalry.

Whenever I pay the Turks my armies consist of 7 Turkomans for speed, 7 Sipahis (can be used as medium cavalry) and some really heavies (Quapukulu). These kind of armies can go on a rampage through lots of catholic armies.

I use the exact same tactic, works everytime.

[RollingWave]

I use the exact same tactic, works everytime.

exactly, and you don't even need to stay away, as those arrows tend to hurt a lot more upclose anyway, if they have foot archers just go in with one group on loose and circle to lure the arrows and then close in with the other groups to quickly shoot them to bits and/or lure their infantry to open up room for a cav charge

[Leutrim]

exactly, and you don't even need to stay away, as those arrows tend to hurt a lot more upclose anyway, if they have foot archers just go in with one group on loose and circle to lure the arrows and then close in with the other groups to quickly shoot them to bits and/or lure their infantry to open up room for a cav charge

aaahhh, the arts of war

[Jesu_follower]

Well i do know that it is a totally different time period, but still. Idk maybe i need a new tactic for M2tw. I have been playing mostly as England, i really like to take my enemy out with long range attacks. D'yall know of another Range focus faction, maybe in a mod? Im not a big fan of cavalry, i prefer foot soldiers and archers/gunmen/artillery.

[Theseus1234]

venice, milan, and sicily all get crossbows, with the milanese having better ones
if crossbows interest you, then yeah choose one of the italian nations

[Jesu_follower]

What about gun powder and artillery. I wanna blast/impale/demoralize my enemy before they even reach my front line

[eggthief]

well the hre gets serpentines, those are the best anti infantry artillery unit in the whole game.

[Wheelchair]

The term "Do not bring a Knife to a gunfight" well, thats basically the case now.

Comparing Tactics of Roman times and Medieval Times is ridiculous, Armor was made for the fact to block incoming arrows, and other reasons.

For the game, have 2 HA (or HS's as you say) keep them busy in the front, run around the back with the rest of your army, surround them get behind them or the side at which they do not have shields.

[Theseus1234]

true, but venice and mila get musketeers, one of the best gunpowder troops
AND they get the MONSTER RIBAULT

horribly inaccurate, but lots of fun!

[RollingWave]

no, the only truely effective arrow proof armors didn't come until the very very end of this time period. and even then it's not like the average joe can afford them (or that deaths via open visors never happens)

they're still effective as hell, just that the skrimish mode is screwed up. if your playing camapgin that's not a huge issue though, just pause and micro a bit.

I agree that the mass HA army is still close to unbeatable on equal grounds. the only times they suck is when

a. the enemy holds high ground with significant foot archer/crossbow / seige

b. they're behind stone walls.

other wise mass HA army is the single easiest army to score heroic victories with. just make sure that you try to find higher ground and /or flank back and split them up.

Bringing along a few light / heavy cav to charge / chase is obviously a good idea too.

While the skrimish mode certainly leaves something to be desired, their effectiveness with properly controlled is still insane.

[Wheelchair]

I was just stating the armor was far more protective against arrows then Ancient armor...

[clandestino]

D'yall know of another Range focus faction, maybe in a mod?

Turkey have good foot archers, Janissari archers are one of the best missile unit in the game.

[Bond]

Turkey have good foot archers, Janissari archers are one of the best missile unit in the game.

i prefer the ottoman infantry over the janissary archers

they can defend themselves(get a shield) and are basically infantry with a bow(also easier to attain/retrain)

not to mention the turks get the monster bombard..thing may be inaccurate against troops but get a few of em and u'll get a hit that'll cause massive damage

my turksih ha armies: 5-6 ottoman infantry..few units of heavy calvary..maybe art and the rest horse archers

place your ottomans/heavy calv/artillery in the furtherst back position of the map and allow your horse archers to pick the enemy a part as they march forward towards you foot archers

[eggthief]

Russia has a nice selection of horse archers and dvor archers and cossack musketeers are nice ranged infantry.

[Kiljaden]

Now I never really played RTW too much at all, and I've only messed around with horse archers on a couple battles, so by no means am I an authority on the subject - I barely qualify to be listened to

It seems to me that what the OP is trying to do is frontal charge the army hoping that the HAs will stop and fire and skirmish away. To me, this is wrong with HA gameplay in M2TW.

What you should try - I know there are probably a couple different ways to do it - put your horse archers on the flanks of your army, with melee cavalry on the far ends to protect the HAs. Move your HAs so that they are barely within missile range of the army (make sure fire at will is on) and either flanking or diagonal to the army. That way, the army will either buzz right by you, or divide up trying to attack the horse archers, making the enemy prime for assault while you command your HAs away into a new firing position.

I think HAs just require a bit more thought and micro - though still being really easy to pwnzorsauce with.

[Jesu_follower]

thanks for all the advice...really appreciate it