Openbeta4 for 5.7

[repman]

Here is the Patch 5.7 openbeta 4 for the curious
http://files.filefront.com/DLV+50+Pa.../fileinfo.html

Only for experienced DLV'ers and please give feedback

Installation: not save compatible to DLV 5.6 or beta3
- install kingdoms patch 1.5 !!!!!
- clean Install DLV 5.0 + 5.6 (no addons or...)
- Execute file Deus_lo_Vult_Patch56_beta4_Install.exe and enter the correct path for the installation
Example: C:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War
(For Germans change it to: C:\Programme\SEGA\Medieval II Total War !!!!)
Ignore the warnings of write protected files !
Don't close the pop-up windows even if takes minutes to perform, wait until they close by themselves.

Changelog beta4: (includes beta3, not save comptible to beta3)
- reduced unrest effects of jewish temple and requirement for merchants: 3,5,10,15,15 %
- deleted custom vanilla campaign: too complicated to maintain
- changed Campaign\Battle AI parameters
- fixed automatic Governor decision if several characters are in the same settlement. TW governors are related to the highest piety values, so DLV Governors now get piety boni and DLV generals piety mali.
- Crimson Tide Bloodmud-mod 3.0 (partially): thanks to Magus
- fixed 5.6 unit bugs: thanks to Dave Scarface
- fixed other 5.6 bugs
- changed some gov\mil point trigger values: deleted bribing effects, reduced effect of unhappy settlements, leadermission have effects on both gov\mil points
- fixed population triggers
- added Justice event: Disobedient Generals can be thrown into dungeon or bribed into happiness
Nobles that have the trait "Disobedient" must travel to the capitol to seek an audience with the King to receive a pardon. If they end their turn in the capitol with a building >= dungeon, and the King is present, then a window will popup “Royal Court”.
Open the character overview panel and click on the disobedient character. A window will pop up “dungeon or royal pardon ?” and you have to decide:
- throw the character into the dungeon (the disloyal Noble will receive the trait "Thrown in the Dungeon"...essentially immobile + other bad traits, until released (% chance of release each turn, with average stay in the Dungeon being 5 years (10 turns)).
- Give the royal pardon and bribe him with 3000 Fl.


Changelog beta3: (includes beta2, not save comptible to beta2)
- refixed city education bug
- refixed extra costs popup
- changed some gov\mil point trigger values
- 2 islam groups: Sunni (=dominicans), Sufi (=Fransiscan) + buildings\traits
- new pics for: well, synagogue
- extracosts for besieging a fort in home territory: 1000 Fl.
- new punishment buildings: dungeon->execution place->torture chamber (only in metropolis settlements)

Changelog beta2: (includes beta1, not save comptible to beta1)
- don't play vanilla custom campaign
- more aggressive AI from the start
- fixed education
- refined hording: thanks to Furin
- fixed cost descriptions for events
- fixed names stuff: scotland, historical campaign,..
- added fieldcosts for diplomats\princess: 300 p.turn in enemy land
- deleted mil\gov_point subtraction for events: transgression, forgivness, ranks,.. + changed some point values (see below)
- added zero point popups for the point system
- 2 orthodox monk groups: Cenobitic Monasticism (=dominicans), Hesychast Monasticism (=Fransiscan) + buildings\traits

Changelog beta1: (not save comptible to 5.6)
- new Garrisonscript: faster, only for the player now, no more AI-AI spawning, and only each 10 turns (idea from Tsarsies)
- ignore vanilla custom campaign (no playable and will be deleted in the next beta)
- fixed education bug (no you need the buildings to educate your youngsters)
- included warhorn sounds from BBW Mod
- see the flesh burning

- 2 rank point systems : governmental + military
- reduced population requirement for huge cities

Regarding the new Point system: (look although into the pdf)
The player can collect government points (gov_points) and military points (mil_points) depending on his actions. Higher settlement levels can only be achieved by adequate point levels: No points no upgrading (even if the other population requirements are fullfilled) not only for the player but although for the AI (so player and AI stay on the same levels) :
Point requirements:
City upgrade:
- Corn Exchange: gov_points > 10
- Market: gov_points > 30
- Fairground: gov_points > 60
- Great Market: gov_points > 100
Castle upgrade:
- Garrison Quarters: mil_points > 10
- Drill Square: mil_points > 30
- Baracks: mil_points > 60
- Armoury: mil_points > 100



Dependent on your economical or political actions as a governor you can get or loose Governmental Points !
- SettlementLoyaltyLevel: -1, for unhappy ones
- CityRebels: -2
- BecomesFactionLeader: -1
- PopeAcceptsCrusadeTarget: +1
- PopeRejectsCrusadeTarget: -1
- CharacterMarriesPrincess: +1
- PriestBecomesHeretic: -1
- CardinalPromoted: +1
- CardinalRemoved: -1
- InquisitorAppointed: +1
- SettlementUpgraded: +1
- GuildUpgraded: +1
- GuildDestroyed: -1
- FactionNewCapital: -1
- FactionAllianceDeclared: +1
- FactionTradeAgreementMade: +1
- VotedForPope: +1
- FactionExcommunicated: -3
- FactionBreakAlliance: -2
- Treasury: < 0, > 30000, > 60000: -1,+1,+2
- LeaderMissionSuccess, LeaderMissionFailed: +1, -1
- MissionSucceeded: AssassinationMission, SpyMission, SabotageMission, DiplomacyMission: all +1
- Events: Trade Fair +1, Royal_Justice +1, Money_Lender -1, War Draft -1 gov

Dependent on your military actions as a general you can get or loose your Military Points !
- LeaderMissionSuccess, LeaderMissionFailed: +1, -1
- ArmyTakesCrusadeTarget: +1
- UnitsDesertCrusade: -2
- GeneralJoinCrusade: +1
- GeneralAbandonCrusade: -1
- GeneralArrivesCrusadeTargetRegion: +1
- GeneralTakesCrusadeTarget: +3
- GeneralCapture(loose)Settlement: +-1, +-2, +-3, +-4
- SackSettlement: +1 (-1 gov)
- ExterminatePopulation: +1 (-2 gov)
- FactionWarDeclared: +1 (-1 gov)
- LeaderDestroyedFaction: +5
- Win, Loose Battle (Odds < 0.5, > 0.5, > 1): +-1, +-2, +-3
- Events: War Draft +1 gov

To get an overview regarding your actual point status click on the button “show faction ranking scroll” (click again if you see the normal ranking popup). You only get the 2 popups if you have more than 0 points.



Feedback Questions:
- Is the new garrison script working ?
- How are now the turn times ?
- Pointsystem: Is it an interesting concept or boring ? Are the construction limits of 10, 30, 60, 100 Points ok ? Any new ideas how to collect points ?
- Is the educaton system now working ?
- ... ???


repman

[Overkill]

That's why you were silent for past few weeks
DL in progress...feedback later...

[Marku]

thanks repman ill give feedback when ive played it :-)

[Omar Nelson B.]

What are the main points that you are looking for feedback on? Are we mainly reporting on the new additions or are there other things that you would like us to look for.

[LlamaD]

I got a question about the military points.

Win, Loose Battle (Odds < 0.5, > 0.5, > 1): +-1, +-2, +-3

That reads when i win a heroic victory (odds <0.5, e.g. 1:3 strength bar) i get +1 point, but with overwhelming power ( odds > 1) i get +3 points.

A) Is that intended? " Let's wait till the Kings army joins us to beat up this single villain. " - " There we go!"

Villain: Oh, OH!


B) or is it meant the other way round?

[Furin]

You are such a crazy person LLamaD .

[Baron Vlad Felix]

Attachment 14213Repman I have problem!can't start the game(crash to desktop)?

[repman]

@LlamaD
The stronger the enemy in the battle you won the more points you get and inverse if you loose the fight

@Vlad Felix
Installation problem if you can't start the whole game ?

@Omar Nelson B.
Feedback questions are in the first post

repman

[Omar Nelson B.]

Bah my bad. I will try and dl this week and return with some feed back.

[Darth Ravenous]

Awesome repman been waiting for this all week.

[G Rider]

Coming of age Generals aren't doing any education. They just look to have vanilla traits...

Norway VHVH.

[Doge]

Hi all, it's good to be back. And just in time for another openbeta release, apparently! Playing Milan, VH/VH for ~40 turns. I'll post again when I've played longer, but here are my initial reactions.

5.7beta comments:

1. Turn times - In general, they are much faster, but for some reason my game always "hangs" when waiting on Georgia's turn...maybe because they're the turn just before Rebels, but maybe something is wrong with their scripts.

2. Education - I've never paid much attention to this as I've never really understood the point...but other than my adopted generals/princes, I don't see any education traits appearing.

3. Points System - I appreciate how much work it must have taken to make this system, but I personally think you should scrap it - or at least revamp it. It adds complexity, which is nice, but at the end of the day I didn't play the game any differently than I would have without it. The things you get points for are things players want to do anyway. Any player obviously tries to win battles, marry princesses, and make alliances...adding points for the things you're doing anyway is a redundancy. Even if you decide to keep it, you should at least remove this requirement from the AI...the AI doesn't need to be handicapped by this.

My main complaint about the points system is that it does not add to the historic realism of the game - medieval kings and sultans did not sit around counting how many bribes were accepted or cardinals promoted. SUGGESTION: What I'd like to see in place of this would be a "Feudal System" points screen. No mod to date has really captured the true nature of medieval rule: managing the feudal system by avoiding rebellion and raising armies. Basically, there could be a series of different triggers that would add or subtract points, which would ultimately derive the Strength of your Feudal System. Doing things like keeping your provinces loyal, capturing permanent forts, accepting the random events (great council, etc) could all increase your feudal score.

A high score would be required to recruit elite units, esp. mounted knights. A low score, perhaps combined with a low-authority ruler and a lousy national reputation, would inspire noble-led rebellions (similar to the rebel generals spawning by unhappy capitals).

There are many more possibilities here, and many of them would add more to the game than counting points just so you can upgrade cities...


General Comments:

4. Norway still doesn't have a flag on the diplomacy screen or during AI turns - any plans to ever fix this?
5. Rebel Latin Crossbowmen have no unit icon/card, and I think they're invisible too.
6. Stone Forts fall too easily. If you can't write a script to charge $ for sieging a fort, then at least raise the # of turns a fort can hold out for from 3 to 10 (or something larger). Waiting 3 turns, esp. in friendly territory, is very easy.
7. Any plans in implement Orthodox monastic orders?
8. Text files: "Catholics" (pl. n.) should be "Catholic" (adj.), to be consistent with the grammar of the other religions.
9. Enemies in forts multiply devastation. All forts in my territory maxed out their devastation to my province @ $500. I'd raise the cap in settlement_mechanics or decrease the PIP value slightly so devastation doesn't max out immediately.
10. I still don't like the Jewish requirement for merchants. A synagogue could add maybe +2 mercantile score to merchants trained, and add +Trade for the city...but religion shouldn't be a requirement
11. During battles - AI archers still rush out in front of the rest of their army and get slaughtered in the middle of the field
12. Ships retreat too far - I like the long range of ships...but I lost a sea battle off Corsica and my ship retreated all the way to Cuba!
13. Maybe because I play as Mediterranean states alot...but money seems very easy to come by...I usually 1/2 the SIF_Trade PIP value to make it more of a challenge...but this may be too hard for some DLVers.
14. Finally, I like the new cav animations alot - they add an important and realistic layer of strategy to battles: save your cav for one organized, devastating mounted charge, after which they become useless. However, after the scattering, they usually get cut down one at a time as they stupidly charge into enemy spearmen, etc. alone. It's frustrating and I've lost a bunch of family members because of this. SUGGESTION: to make cav last longer when scattering, and to emphasize their value in general, I'd make all the elite cav units (Feudal/Chivalric Knights, Gen. Bodyguards) 2 hit points rather than 1, and double their recruitment and upkeep $ cost accordingly.

Just some thoughts. I'll get back with more once I've played into the late game.

Doge

[Cyphon88]

Some good ideas doge. Refering to your revamp of the points system, how on earth do you {rapidly} change your nation's reputation? There doesn't seem to be a way to do this, especially after the dark ages.

[Overkill]

Here's my quick feedback.
1. Turn times are fast as they were in 5.6...fast enough in my opinion.
2. Education...well it worked fine in 5.6. I know some people reported education bug but I really did not noticed it.
3. Points system - pointless. DLV is great as it is.
There are some issues that requires attention. AI for example. It's extremely passive...pure gamekiller. I'm not talking to AI vs AI...it's their behavior towards player. They are eager to declare war but without any intention to attack or defend. I do remember that AI was more aggressive in previous version. Now even vanilla AI looks like it's run by bunch of serial killers and dictators.

[Leonnidas]

(...)
2. Education...well it worked fine in 5.6. I know some people reported education bug but I really did not noticed it.
(...)

Same with me, never had any prob with education in 5.6

[G Rider]

Same with me, never had any prob with education in 5.6

I had a problem in 5.6

Like others they never finished their 5th year no matter if the buildings where there or not.

[G Rider]

Been playing for sometime now with both Norway and Briton. Both factions I can't upgrade a castle to garrison quarter.

After getting 100 Gov points I get the pop up confirming it and then I can't view Gov points screen anymore from the faction view. Nothing happens.

Using faction view only shows Gov points. Is there a way to view Military points? Are they even separate?

Would rather have points make you able to have more military units instead of the current system. Or just rid the new point system and military cap based on faction size altogether. << preferred.

As stated in my previous post. There seems to be no education system after your first turn. Coming of age Generals have no schooling altogether.

[repman]

@Doge

1. Turn times - In general, they are much faster, but for some reason my game always "hangs" when waiting on Georgia's turn...maybe because they're the turn just before Rebels, but maybe something is wrong with their scripts.

- It's the waiting for the rebels turn

2. Education - I've never paid much attention to this as I've never really understood the point...but other than my adopted generals/princes, I don't see any education traits appearing.

- even if you put the youngsters into settlements with the buildings scholarium, drill_square ??

3. Points System - I appreciate how much work it must have taken to make this system, but I personally think you should scrap it - or at least revamp it. It adds complexity, which is nice, but at the end of the day I didn't play the game any differently than I would have without it. The things you get points for are things players want to do anyway. Any player obviously tries to win battles, marry princesses, and make alliances...adding points for the things you're doing anyway is a redundancy. Even if you decide to keep it, you should at least remove this requirement from the AI...the AI doesn't need to be handicapped by this.

- the AI is not counting points, but if the player stalls in settlement advancement the same for the AI (similar to a historical technology trigger)

My main complaint about the points system is that it does not add to the historic realism of the game - medieval kings and sultans did not sit around counting how many bribes were accepted or cardinals promoted. SUGGESTION: What I'd like to see in place of this would be a "Feudal System" points screen. No mod to date has really captured the true nature of medieval rule: managing the feudal system by avoiding rebellion and raising armies. Basically, there could be a series of different triggers that would add or subtract points, which would ultimately derive the Strength of your Feudal System. Doing things like keeping your provinces loyal, capturing permanent forts, accepting the random events (great council, etc) could all increase your feudal score.

- sure a medieval regent doesn't count points. It's just a addional gameplay feature as in online games to reach the next game level.
- the gov_points are already connected to loyality level of the settlements, accepting trade fairs,...
- i wanted two counters to have more flexibility for the player how to play: militaristic or building. Some mil_point actions have negative influence on gov_points
- maybe better names for mil_points, gov_points: power, prestige, feudal, zeal,... ???
- additional counters could be added: tech_points, spirit_points: thats enough

A high score would be required to recruit elite units, esp. mounted knights. A low score, perhaps combined with a low-authority ruler and a lousy national reputation, would inspire noble-led rebellions (similar to the rebel generals spawning by unhappy capitals).
There are many more possibilities here, and many of them would add more to the game than counting points just so you can upgrade cities...

- effect of reputation can be included in gov_points
- effects on recruiting, traits, government system, progress can all be developped...we have just started

@G Rider
At what turn have you reached 100 gov_points (should be after 200 years..lol) ??
I will change the treasure benefit limit to 30000 and 60000 or higher
0 points are not shown. there should 2 popups
I will scrap some negative effects on mil_points as : transgression, ...
I could include BygIII but it would probably be a performance killer.
- even if you put the youngsters into settlements with the buildings scholarium, drill_square ??

@overkill
some are reporting aggressive AI, some not...



repman

[G Rider]

@G Rider
At what turn have you reached 100 gov_points (should be after 200 years..lol) ??
I will change the treasure benefit limit to 30000 and 60000 or higher
0 points are not shown. there should 2 popups
I will scrap some negative effects on mil_points as : transgression, ...
I could include BygIII but it would probably be a performance killer.
- even if you put the youngsters into settlements with the buildings scholarium, drill_square ??


repman

I stopped playing at turn 106. I reached 100 pts quite sometime ago. When testing I use add_money.

The castle requirements seem broken. Stuck at lowest level even with 10,000 population. No option to build a garrison quarter - hence then no option to upgrade castle. I only see 1 pop ups for gov points. Maybe the military points is broken and that is why I don't see 2 pop ups or able to upgrade a castle. Even after killing off the 1st rebel army with no transgressions I never saw any military pop up.

New coming of age generals have no education traits at all.
Can't school them. Also leaving them in the field doesn't give the skipping school trait. Nothing.

[Overkill]

@overkill
some are reporting aggressive AI, some not...
repman

Well I strated 8 campaigns with 4 different nations including 2 5.7 beta campaigns. The only time I got sieged was when Turks responded to jihad called against Novgorod. I was totally outnumbered...something like 4 to 1 and during the battle game froze...and I never managed to finish that campaign.
All battles were started by me...not single one by the AI.
Most stupid thing occurred when I was in war with Byzantines. With approximately 600 man I sieged Constantinople (with garrison of 900 man). I decided to wait few turns before attack...and in next turn they got reinforcements. 7 full stacks of greeks finest soldiers surrounded my army. But 6-7 turns later Constantinople surrendered to my forces without fight and all remaining troops just went to their neighbor province. Evan 2 yr. old kid could see that I was totally outnumbered and had no chance to win the battle...but not the AI. I call that more than passive. And I'm playing VH/VH...imagine what's going on in easy mode .