Economy help!!

[Goldenboy24]

Ive noticed that whenever i play as a faction my money goes in the negatives and i cant buy troops to defend or attack. So i was wondering if you can give me advice on how to get my economy up and how i should use my merchants because i rarely use them.

[townie33]

well first you need to concentrate on building economic buildings in your cities. This will increase the amount of money you make. Also make sure you only recruit units that have free upkeep in your cities this frees up more money for you to use. Now only have a few castles in key areas because castles don't make a lot of money, i use around a 5 cities to 1 castles. That is about all i can think of for now.

[Theseus1234]

the city:castle ratio is very important, as cities can easily make 3000 florins per turn whereas castles make a max of like 1500. i usually do 4:1 or 3:1 if im filthy rich

so in the beginning, focus on 2 things, economic buildings and expansion. more cities=more money
when you have a lot of territory, start upgrading your core cities (the ones in the center) with economic improvements and such and build basic military buildings on the fringes of your territories
then, when the basic economy in the center is done, start building medium quality military buildings, and build basic economic buildings on the fringes

basically, alternate between economy and military buildings

also, your army is very important. maximize the amount of free upkeep units in your cities, and only train what you can afford. spear militia do fairly well in battles, so dont spam feudal knights or armored swordsmen or whatever

DONT...USE...MERCHANTS...EVER. in vanilla, the resources are worth complete crap and they arent worth it at all. dont train them. dont use them. dont think about them

[dr_guerra]

Merchants are actually quite good, as a merchant's guild is great to have, and some regions have wonderful trade, like Timbuktu, Baghdad, Constantinople, etc.

Remember, make most of your settlements cities, as they produce more money.

Don't build too much army, or you'll go bankrupt from their upkeep.

Militia units can have free upkeep in cities.

[Viking Prince]

Merchants are actually quite good, as a merchant's guild is great to have, and some regions have wonderful trade, like Timbuktu, Baghdad, Constantinople, etc.

You will be able to acquire the Merchants Guild without actually building the agents. The activity created by building the structures that increase tradable goods is sufficient to score keep the points required for the guild.

Merchant agents do help get the guild, they simply are not essential.

[Wheelchair]

Please, There is a search button for a reason! Anyway I'll explain how I do things.

There are many things that reflect income and how much money you get.

Venice is my favorite faction, due to their trade opportunities. Economy is where I really shine in MTW, I 90% of the time I auto resolve battles... Well I auto resolve in early game as Venice because Italian Militia OWN everything.

As Venice my economy is my top priority, but that doesn't mean I don't fight, oh no! I slaughter whoever is on my trade area... Example would be the Milanese, they have my cities which are great for trade...Milan and Genoe.

Milan, Genoe, Venice, Bologna, and Florence, my 5 main trading cities in the Italian Peninsula, at around turn 20 I control all of them via Blitzkrieg. These cities will generate around 20'000 a turn... and that's only with some of my economic buildings.

Also, I use Iraklion as a base of operations for Invading the Byzantines, where I take Athens and Corinth to get a foothold and when I'm ready I take Thessilonica and procede to Constantinople (my city!)

This all can be done in 30 turns, I go around a nominal pace and most times get it by 40-50 turns. So, now I stand at around 30'000-40'000 florins at turn 30, and I also have 3 full stack armies, 1 to defend my priorities in the Italian peninsula, 1 gaining new priorities in Greece, and 1 conquering the Italian peninsula from the Sicilians. I generate 11'000 a turn, Italian Militia have an Upkeep of 125, so theoretically I could produce 88 more units of Italian Militia without going into Debt... thats 4 and a half more armies!

but I don't do the above for the following reason, by the time I produce that many, I would have slowed my ecomemy.. by reducing population by an unnecessary amount in my cities AND by they time they were all produced They would be out of date.

So anyway, thats my rant/strategy.

Heres how to do it.

Beginning

The first 10 turns are the most important, capture all the rebel settlements around your area, most new players play France or England, so if your England take the Isles, if your france try and Capture the land around you to make it look like Modern day France, if you control these your income will be substantial.

Make sure you have around 5-6:1 City to castle Ratio, in the begginning 3:1 is fine. when expanding into new territory, convert previous castles to cities (don't unless you do not need them)

Now, it's best to turn Island settlements into Cities, As the AI dosn't usually bother Islands, and it has increased trade due to the fact its an Island.


Buildings!

Building order: Roads>Market>Warehouse>Port>Farm>Townhall

In cities always build economic buildings first, and don't spend to much time building all the buildings in Castles, try having 1 castle devoted to a distinct Unit, Example: 1 Castle will build Knights, 1 will build Infantry, 1 will build Archers.

Disbanding

Make sure to disband uneeded Naval units, this is key for Sicily and Venice in the begginning, Naval units in MTW Essentially are used for Transportation, there is a rarecase where you can use it effectivly otherwise.

Disbanding can be your best friend, if you have some knights in a foriegn location, and you KNOW they will not be retrained soon, then disband them.. (if their below half strength). In some cases this would not be logical if theres enemies near by.

ARMY SIZE

Now, army size. 80% of the time this is the problem. Do not build units EVERY turn, especially mounted knights. Avoid using all Cavalry Armies, as they are expensive and the upkeep for a whole Cavalry army exceeds 5000; Whereas a variety army is more effective at half the upkeep cost.

Its not the size of the army.. It's how you use it! You don't need full stack armies to take a city that has a defence of 2 units... Its not logical, split your forces up and take 2 cities, When attacking make sure you have double the garrison size.

MERCHANTS

Try not to use merchants early game, they will only slow you down. Do not use merchants in Vanilla (non-modded game). However; If you ARE infact playing a mod, Preferably Stainless Steel, then use Merchants.

Merchants can be very effective, you can use a little "exploit" as some people refer to it as, because the AI cannot do it, But In my honest opinion, what good leader in the ancient times didn't protect a group of merchants with a fort to make a huge ass amount of cash? See Below.

Take a General, construct a fort on a valuable trade resource: Slaves, Ivory, Textiles, and Gold.

Now, take the general out, and put 20 merchants inside the fort... You don't need 20 but its the best way to make a fortune.

All the merchants get the benefit of the resource, so say if its Slaves for example, 20 merchants making average 260florins/turn, 5200 Florins a turn! in 10 turns thats 52'000! that could also fund an entire army (even a cavalry one)

ALSO: 5200 florins a turn is not constant, and this is the reason merchant forts are extremely efficient. Every few turns you'll notice your merchant income increase by a few hundred, thats because your merchants gain more skills and sell their stock better.

My last Venice game I had 3 merchant fort set up, my best Merchant fort has atleast 15 merchants generating 1100/turn. All together I was making 41'000 a turn from merchants alone.

IRRELEVANT TIP: Select all of your units in an army and press M, this will merge all identical units. so say you have 6 units of 20 Spearman in each unit, if you press M it will merge them all into 120 men (on Huge game settings), This can speed up retraining and make your army able to fight the next turn!


I Hope this helped!

-Wheelchairs

[Desperado †]

DONT...USE...MERCHANTS...EVER. in vanilla, the resources are worth complete crap and they arent worth it at all. dont train them. dont use them. dont think about them

Merchants- if used corectly - are extremley usefull on either Kingdoms or Medieval. Yes Kingdoms resources are worth more, but you have to realize there are less factions and so less enemy merchants to conquer which is were the big dosh comes from. You just have to get in early. A merchant is a one off 500 florins, and considering you make one aquisition and succeed you've already paid that off. But I know, most of the time merchants fail first time, and you don't get any. Not let's say you hire five merchants, only one succeeds the first aquisition, the rest perish (awww). He needs to only make two more aquisitions succesfully and he'll of paid off the training of the others. Plus the small change he makes from resources. Once hes got some experience, send him to northern Italy, or somwere were many capitals meet, and get ready for the big stuff. Heres my tips with merchants --

Start Early

Train Many

Send into Settlement if enemy Merchant comes round with better experience

Train in settlements with Merchant Guilds

Build Watchtowers (especially around big resources like gold)

When you've had it big, have a ship deticated for that merchant

Northern Italy is were most Merchants collect, some go to Norway (God know's why) and some to Constantinople.

The best faction for using Merchants are the Northern Italian States and HRE, as of course was the truth of the time.

Used correctly, Merchants can help pull a fringing on debt faction (like say Sicily) back into the Green.

[sparty]

DONT...USE...MERCHANTS...EVER. in vanilla, the resources are worth complete crap and they arent worth it at all. dont train them. dont use them. dont think about them

I had a merchant just north of Nottingham pulling in 298 Florins a month! That was serious upkeep money for my army actually. I think the Merchant thing is underrated if anything.

Aside from that I really appreciated your tips. I think the the hard thing to remember is that this isn't an RTS...you aren't racing to tech in the same way or speed you would in a traditional RTS game.

Low Tech units can inflict good damage against high tech units. Byzantium, for example, lacks gunpowder if I remember correctly, but they do have a viable late game strategy.

[Viking Prince]

I had a merchant just north of Nottingham pulling in 298 Florins a month! That was serious upkeep money for my army actually. I think the Merchant thing is underrated if anything.

Aside from that I really appreciated your tips. I think the the hard thing to remember is that this isn't an RTS...you aren't racing to tech in the same way or speed you would in a traditional RTS game.

Low Tech units can inflict good damage against high tech units. Byzantium, for example, lacks gunpowder if I remember correctly, but they do have a viable late game strategy.

Like Theseus, I do not use merchants unless there is little risk of another merchant taking over my man. They cost too much to recruit and the pay off takes too many turns of training to risk the loss. I have better places to use the florins.

[Mithrane]

On Merchants :

If you intend to use merchants (I suggest it) you must plan to do so, and plan how.

Plan Part A. Where to grow your merchants?
-Find resourses in your territories, prefferable away from enemy lines, which make at least 20 florins/turn with the base merchant.
-Send only 1 merchant to any kind of resource per region, so they gain the monopoly trait line
-Leave them there until they get at least 4-5 marks of experience.
-Try to train all merchants in the same 1-3 cities, so as to push for Merchant's Guild and HQ.

Plan Part B. Where to send them?
-If you don't know the map well, take a moment in a game, and hit "~" and /toggle_fow. This will let you see the whole map. Look around with a merchant selected. You will see where the great resource locations are. Here is a short list, though, to get you started. There are other hot spots, but these are my main goal locations.

-Wines in middle France
-Silk in northern Italy
-Silk in Southern Danemark
-Mines in HRE
-Anything around Constantinople
-Anything in the Holy Lands
-Anything around Timbuktu
-Slaves around Kiev

-Have them sit on these trade items. They will make 100-700/turn without exploits.

Plan Part C What to do with them?
-Once a merchant gets above 5-6 exp, keep an eye out for victims. If a foreign merchant comes near that you can take, do so. If you have a greater than 70% chance, it is almost always worth the risk. I tend to do it if it is above 50%.
-Keep to the hot spots, that is where their merchants go.
-Keep an eye out for their top merchants, as they may kill your good guys.
-Keep watch towers along your lines, so you see where their merchants are.



On Cities :

Each faction has its own individual situation it finds itself in, and thus this needs to be tailored to each. However, these are good general rules.

-Roads make for trade, trade makes for money. Roads = first build priority.
-Farms make more people, who pay more taxes. Farms = second priority
-You need militia for safety and public order. The buildings that make militia also increase public order. Militia = 3rd priority.
-Ports mean trade and navies. Ports = 4th priority.
-Merchant buildings mean trade and more merchants. (Grain exchange is incredibly important, b/c without it your general gains stupidity traits.) After Grain Exchange, Merchant buildings = 5th priority.
-Religion means more public order. Churches = 6th priority (except when you need religious conversion now!)


These are general rules. They get a village started. Large cities should be in locations and have buildings built such that you can see what they need. Once you get to level 2 of each kind, you need to start specializing. Only a few cities should have top-end churches. Not every city needs top end mechants/ports. Some cities don't need past 2nd level militia building.

The cities where you plan to build merchants have an increase importants to trade related buildings so they can get merchants guilds. Those you plan to train priests at same for churches. Those you plan to train spies/assassins at, same for inns/taverns.

*Note on taverns* If you leave a general in a city to govern and they have even the most basic of inns/taverns, they can get alcoholism, a very bad trait series. Only build these where you plain to use them.

[Mithrane]

On Economic Strategies Involving Militaries:

-Remember that units cost money to train, and keep. Only field the army you need/can afford.
-Keep militia in cities, as they have 0 upkeep in right situations.
-Cavalry is expensive, only use it if you can afford it.
-Top end troops are expensive. Use lots of lesser troops to fill out an army, and top end troops to "finish the fight" as it were.
-Don't be afraid to sack if you need to. Try not to sack with a chivalrous general, but if you need money, you need money. At the start of the game, this is a great way to get a ton of money and thus a large army, fast.
-Exterminate the infidells. If you take a city with a ton of an opposing religion, you might want to kill them off. It lowers the population, thus stunting growth, and cutting taxes way down, but fixes public order real good, and sets up for easy conversion. (Do not do this with a chivalrous general)
-Keep the enemy off of your roads. If you look at the roads, you can see how much trade you have represented there. If nothing is there, trade is blocked, and there is an enemy on your road. Kick them off, and get trade going again.
-Save the land! If an army sits in 1 place for a long time, the land is destroyed, and trade and farming drop a lot. Don't let an army, yours or theirs, sit in your lands long enough to get destruction.
-Kill the rebels. Also, kick enemy forces out so they don't spawn rebels which you then have to track down for the above reasons.

[Drago Fett]

actually use merchants, but use them in this manner: aqcuire foreign merchants(in otherwords attack them). on average, this generates about 1000 florins everytime you acquire a foreign merchant. And no matter what the percentage says of acquiring the merchant, the probality really is more like 75%(unless the merchant is very very powerful).

[Musthavename]

actually use merchants, but use them in this manner: aqcuire foreign merchants(in otherwords attack them). on average, this generates about 1000 florins everytime you acquire a foreign merchant. And no matter what the percentage says of acquiring the merchant, the probality really is more like 75%(unless the merchant is very very powerful).

It's also worth noting that if your attempt backfires or your merchant is sent out of business, you do not lose any money (only the 550 florins used to train the merchant). This is money that does not come out of any faction's "coffers", but is rather the Merchants own assets.

[Tsarevna]

I'm constantly vexed by the "trade disappearing" blinking icons in my city screen. How can you tell what's making the trade disappear? :hmmm:

I know I can look at roads and predict if a hidden rebel group is standing on my road, but what about ports? I can't keep an eye on all my neutral/allies ports unless I had a huge navy or spy network.

Also, I sometimes forget if I have a trade rights deal with a faction. Is there a way to look it up without sending my diplomat halfway across the world to speak with that faction again? :hmmm:

[ssgrock]

Thats a pretty detailed answer Wheelchair. I've taken up to playing MTW II recently, I'd been playing AOE for a couple years and I like MTW II more. I bought the Gold Edition and have been having lots of fun. But, what I've learned thus far is that merchants are indeed worth the cost, as long as you have a good paying resource site, so yes I recommend you use them as long as you have more important needs met first.

[man]

press @ and press add_money 40000 (btw i was joking but do it if u want)

[Sher Khan]

I do it all the time, man

Moved to Battle Planning.

[Viking Prince]

Wheelchair: This is a great post for the newbies. You are using the unpatched unmodded version I assume. The fort and merchant thing is a bug. My style of play tries to avoid taking advantage of the computer, so I would not do this. Anyways, this was fixed with one of the patches. Like ssgrock, I also use the Gold edition. I usually use the Retrofit Mod so that I am "patched" through the Kingdoms exec file. I am not certain where the fort bug was fixed.

I tend to build ports ASAP if I have the trade relations to support trade (this seems more important in the Mediteranean, but you build sequence is good. Some advise simply buying the cheapest units that are available and approaching a balanced build strategy as a newbie. Both methods are a great way to start learning how to play game.

[pwijnands]

I am not certain where the fort bug was fixed.

It's a line near the bottom of descr_campaign_db.xml (a packed file) in the "misc" section:
<allow_resource_forts bool="false"/>

Change "false" to "true" and you can construct forts on resources again. It won't affect savegames, you'll have to start over before it takes effect.

[fritsje5]

Join me and the Russians, you would understand the meaning of unearthly rich!!

Especially cities like Stockholm, Novgorod and Kiev are the sickest income and near Kiev are numerous spots where you can trade slaves, and Stockholm has lots of silver mines.

I wouldn't recommend doing the merchant in fort thing because it's taking advantage of a bug but that's of course ur decision.

Holy Roman empire is also very rich when you seize territories fast and stick to a building scheme in which you build the same building in every city at the same time.

And of course all the Italian states, because they basically don't need castles, and you have very capable militia which; while stationed in cities are free upkeep... (But I don't really like them, especially those sissy Milanese backstabbing dogs)

real heroes are born in Russia!!(Not that I was)

Gotta watch the quarterfinal Russia versus The Netherlands now