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  1. #1
    Benz282's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    Well, I was reading about Diablo (yes, reading; I lack the patience to actually play the game ), and I had a crazy idea. What if someone were to make a mod centered around the eternal struggle between heaven, hell, and earth? I'ld rather it not be a "Diablo: Total War" (Diablo is awesome, but I can't see it in TW), but basically the same idea:

    The Angels of Heaven and the Demons of Hell have struggled against each other for all eternity. Some renegade demons and angels banded together and created Earth, to be a safe haven for all races. There they created humans and other species, to populate the new world. The Creators knew that, for the safety of the realm, they must never return to their homelands, fearing what would happen to Earth if the other angels and demons knew of its existence.

    Centuries passed, and life on Earth prospered. With the Creators guiding them, the human civilization advanced quickly. Eventually, the humans united under one king, and peace was established between all ethnicities. It was then that humans began searching for new worlds, separate to their own, to explore. The only worlds parallel to Earth were, of course, Heaven and Hell.

    It was when the humans began reaching the heartlands of Heaven and Hell that the Demons and Angels first became aware of Earth's existence. The human travelers told wonderful tales of a Utopian society, and the demons couldn't resist the temptation...

    The demons invaded Earth through the rifts created by the human magi and began wreaking havoc. When the angels learned of this incursion, they also invaded, not wanting to give the demons control of the new world.

    And so, the forces of Heaven and Hell converge on the battleground that is Earth. The native inhabitants are not skilled in war, and can only watch as their world is destroyed.

    This is Total War.

    --

    This isn't official BY ANY MEANS, and it would take a lot of work to complete BUT if I were to lead this Mod, I would suggest making the following:

    - A new map (I could do this, though it would take some time, and might not be top-notch).
    - 2 or 3 main factions (Heaven, Hell, and the Humans; though the latter could be represented as the rebels). The forces of Hell/Heaven could also be divided (much like the Romans in vanilla), meaning several factions.
    - New units for the new factions.
    - Mostly melee combat system. The main exception would be magic (in the form of fire/darkness and light)
    - More "epic" than you can shake a finger at.

    As I said, this isn't in development at all, I'm just seeing who would be interested in making it/playing it.

    I myself have no experience at all with unit modeling/skinning, so if this mod does start, we will need a unit modeler.

    Also, I'm not going for uber-sized demons fighting angels with god-like stats; there's no fun in that. If anything, I'm hoping for only a couple good units per faction. Nothing too fancy, just a simple little mod that is easy to build off of.

    Post your thoughts pl0x.
    Last edited by Benz282; June 19, 2008 at 10:24 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    why make this mod when you could go play the EOD 1 mod which is humans vs the Satanic armies


    its a great mod btw

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-of-Aggression- An Age of Aggression- my Skyrim FF







  3. #3
    Benz282's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    I have played EoD. It's a great mod, but this mod would be for myself; a learning experience if you will.

    I have nothing against EoD, but I would like to have a completely fantasy, apocalyptic, final-battle of good and evil...mod. EoD kinda of does that, but I'm looking to take it over the top. In this mod, humans would be incapable of doing anything about the fighting, even though it is their world. If there is a Human faction, the campaign would be bastard hard, unlike in EoD, where the Satanae are often too busy fighting other factions to throw their full force against you at any one time.

  4. #4
    Benz282's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    So, this is where I'm at on the map right now. All I've done is eliminate all factions except for the Britons and Germans, change some textures, and make a huge, empty map. I felt that the sea didn't quite fit with the whole "premise" of the mod, so I changed it.

    Wh00t.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The sea looks better in the actual campaign. The sky isn't default anymore, so instead of light, there are patches of red. The sea itself is a dark, dark red (RGB 50 0 0, I believe). There are some patches of blue in the sky (because I evidently got lazy), so every once in a while you WILL see light. It's nice to see the light shine through every once in a while, because otherwise, everything is dark.



    and in vanilla:
    .

    Btw, the sea/sky textures are easily put into other campaigns
    Last edited by Benz282; June 20, 2008 at 01:57 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    Why not base it off of some the scriptures. It is written that there was a great war in - whatever - astrial realm heaven exists - in which a third of ALL angels sided with Lucifer and fought against God - when Satan decieved and convinced them that he could be God. just have it cover that struggle - thats a major mod project my friend but interesting. You could structure your armies the same as the ranks the angels hold for both sides - and include a bit - but just have two factions. Why not?

  6. #6
    Benz282's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    I think that would be a good idea. Problem is, I've never read any of the scriptures (I'm agnostic).

  7. #7

    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    Well theres not a whole lot on it or revealed in great detail. For the most part thats your setting or premise. Apparently it was really violent and ended really fast! It doesnt have to be too Tolkien in detailed story nature just well developed in game play. Lots of work! I will donate a couple of angel models to help keep you driven - always wanted to do one anyway cant commit to the project sad to say though too much already on my plate.

  8. #8
    Benz282's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solo1906 View Post
    Well theres not a whole lot on it or revealed in great detail. For the most part thats your setting or premise. Apparently it was really violent and ended really fast! It doesnt have to be too Tolkien in detailed story nature just well developed in game play. Lots of work! I will donate a couple of angel models to help keep you driven - always wanted to do one anyway cant commit to the project sad to say though too much already on my plate.
    Thank you, any help is greatly appreciated. I'm expecting to have this "done" by the end of the summer, so there's no rush at all.

    I've spent some more time thinking about the actual gameplay/map, and I think this is good. Your idea to base it off scriptures is good, but I think it would be a bit hard to make a map for that. Here's the basic outline right now (highly subject to change):

    The Super-faction of Hell:
    - Hell
    - Prime Evil of Death
    - Prime Evil of Destruction
    - Prime Evil of Suffering
    - Corrupted Ones (shadow faction of the Human Kingdom)

    The Human Kingdom (still working on a name)

    The Angels/Kingdom of Heaven (emergent faction)

    The Fallen Angels (shadow faction of KoH/Angels)

    The main faction will be Hell. The "lead faction" of the Legions of Hell will be "Hell", whose only starting region will be inaccessible. Later in the game, they will acquire more territories from the other factions (they will be the "Slave" faction, so all territories that rebel automatically join them).

    The Prime Evils will each be lead by a single family member. The three of them will, together, control most of the map; having recently conquered the Human Kingdom and divided it among themselves. Through scripts, I will find a way to kill each faction once the starting family member dies. The settlements of each specific Prime Evil will join the main faction of "Hell" once this happens.

    The final subfaction of Hell will be that of the Human rebels (which will behave similarly to the ERE/WRE Rebels in BI). They represent the humans who, realizing the hopelessness of fighting, have defected to the demon hoards, giving up their minds and free will in the process. In effect, they are the "Slaves" of the other Hell-factions.

    The Human Kingdom will start with only a few select territories; at the edges of what was once their glorious, Utopian empire. The demons invaded Earth upon learning of its existence, and made short work of the unsuspecting humans. Now, however, the Humans have learned how to fight the demon hoards, and might be able to push them back and reclaim their lost territory. The mod will be centered around this faction; though it will be bastard hard at first.

    Later in the game, the Angels of Heaven will emerge and join the Human Kingdom against the Demons, but they will have problems of their own; in the form of Fallen Angels, who have joined the demons.

    --

    Of course, faction names are likely to be changed. The faction "Hell" (not the superfaction) is likely to be changed to "Lucifer" or something of the like. The Prime Evils may also be replaced with The Four Horsemen. The map is still being conceptualized, but most of the "little things" have already been done.

  9. #9
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    I had planed to make a mod based off the war in heaven but decided against it for a number of reasons, best of luck with this. You can of course plunder the EOD I & II units and files for anything you wish top use, just ask us first in case it's something we used from somewhere else.

    A Google of 'War in heaven' will give you access to plenty of background info.

    Oh, one tip, Hell didn't exist until after the war in heaven, it only came about after the fall.

    This might give you some ideas, I wrote this long ago..

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    The Fall.

    Angels are obedient to the word and will of god. but they do have free will, they chose to worship god and sing his praises because they can see the perfection of his divinity. when god made man (his son Jesus) in his own image and told the heavenly host(angels) to bow before man and accept his word as they did that of god, Lucifer did bow but in his heart he was filled with jealousy and anger, Lucifer had been the golden boy and most beloved of god in heaven, and as a being of perfection could not see why god had placed another in his seat at the right hand of god.

    Lucifer gathers the angelic host and declares his refusal to bow to man, he proposes to form a new government and be commander of all who would follow his word, angels that were loyal and true to god tried to reason with him that gods will was divine and that he must repent his words or face the wrath of god.

    Lucifer refuses and calls the loyal angels slaves, at this point he gathers a lot of support (the only figure I've seen is 133,306,668 fifteenth century bishop of tusculum) because the fact he is inciting rebellion is proof enough for many amongst the host, the loyalist tell them to close their ears(?) from the deception and hate and again advised Lucifer and all who had been affected by him to go to god and confess their wickedness.

    Lucifer again refuses and the loyalist rush off to tell god of the growing rebellion, now someone at this point is wondering why did god not just stop this with a thought he is supposed to be all powerful after all, well to do that would be to prove Lucifer right that the angels were no more than slaves to gods will, so he gave the rebellion the opportunity to match his strength and might. god decided that the rebels could no longer be allowed to stay in heaven and so had to be seen to be beaten and then banished.

    All of the angelic host were gathered before god to determine each case be they loyal or rebel but before this is done Lucifer stands up and makes his case, he states that he should be taken into counsel with God and that Gods purpose should be revealed to him, but God tells Lucifer that his son alone shall know his secret purposes, and that all the host including Lucifer must yield to the Christ unquestioned servitude and loyalty, but for Lucifer himself it is to late and that he is unworthy of his place in heaven.

    Lucifer pointed to his sympathizers, comprising nearly one half of all the angels, and exclaimed, "These are with me! Will you expel these also, and make such a void in heaven?" He then declared that he was prepared to resist the authority of Christ and to defend his place in heaven by force of might, strength against strength.

    God tells the angels that the rebels can no longer be allowed to stay in heaven as their place was dependant on their will to follows Gods laws, this enrages Lucifer further and he becomes bolder in his dissent, stating that the angels should be free to follow their own will and that their own perfection would guide them right, that the law of God was a restriction on their liberty and that abolishing the law was now his will.

    So there is a war in heaven (hmm would make an interesting Mod) and Christ and the loyal angels are victorious,Lucifer and his followers are cast down to rule over the earth, in heaven the justice of God is exalted and peace reigns once again, there is no longer a trace of rebellion in heaven, though the loyal angels weep and mourn at the loss of the fallen.

    God tells the Christ of his plans for man, that he is to inhabit the earth as a test of his loyalty, if man should pass the test whenever God sought him to prove himself, he would be equal to the angels and seated in heaven,


    Also see The revolt of the angels by Anatole France (fictional)
    http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/afrance.htm

    Quote:
    In 1914's The Revolt Of The Angels by Anatole France (1844-1924), we have the first artistically successful pro-Satanic novel. The elegance of France's prose, even in translation, is a welcome antidote to the vulgarity of most modern self-styled Satanists. Included here is the resplendently imagined final chapter of this insurrectionary work, in which Satan leads his angels to victory against the forces of Heaven and crowns himself ruler of the universe. Having grown accustomed to the majesty of his exile, the victorious Fallen Angel realizes that dissent is an integral part of his being. Ill-suited to the monotony of ruler ship after so many aeons as a metaphysical renegade, he finally concludes that “God conquered, will become Satan; Satan, conquering, will become God.”
    and Flowers from hell, a collection of the best writers on the subject from Milton to Faust and Poe to Marlowe, but don't blame me if you start wearing black and listening to that Devil music.
    http://www.creationbooks.com/text-flowers.html
    Last edited by Halie Satanus; June 20, 2008 at 06:06 PM.

  10. #10
    Benz282's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    I had planed to make a mod based off the war in heaven but decided against it for a number of reasons, best of luck with this. You can of course plunder the EOD I & II units and files for anything you wish top use, just ask us first in case it's something we used from somewhere else.

    A Google of 'War in heaven' will give you access to plenty of background info.

    Oh, one tip, Hell didn't exist until after the war in heaven, it only came about after the fall.

    This might give you some ideas, I wrote this long ago..
    Thanks Halie.

    I'm not sure what units I will have in this mod, but simply offering to let me use some of yours is motivating. That information on The Fall of Lucifer really helped (especially considering I did not know any details on his Fall prior to reading it).

  11. #11

    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    Well I could tell you that cronologicaly having humans be a part of it would be flawed because it happened and was concluded before the creation of man - hense Satans presence in the garden. So there was already an angelic and demonic seperation created - and the stage set for the next phase of the war the battle for the souls of man.

  12. #12
    Benz282's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solo1906 View Post
    Well I could tell you that cronologicaly having humans be a part of it would be flawed because it happened and was concluded before the creation of man - hense Satans presence in the garden. So there was already an angelic and demonic seperation created - and the stage set for the next phase of the war the battle for the souls of man.
    I'm not basing it off the scriptures; this is pretty much my own little fantasy world that people will be able to play in. Sorry to disappoint you .

    I'm holding off doing the big stuff (map, units, buildings) and getting all the little stuff out of the way first. That way I can get everything the way I want it, and not have to worry bout forgetting anything when I get done with the big/arduous tasks (because, no doubt, by then I'll just want to get the darned thing released and done with).

    So, here's what I'm currently working on; sky. It's actually part of the whole "atmosphere" of the mod, which I'm trying to get just right. I'm going for a dark, apocalyptic "feel", but with some "hope". This isn't what I was going for exactly, but it's the best I can do for now. By the time I release this, I hope to have found a way to achieve what I want.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


  13. #13
    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    Good luck on your mod, I can help you a little with unit ideas and stuff if I have some spare time.
    See, my mother drilled the Bible into my head when I was little, so I can also give you quotes and stuff. btw I am Catholic.
    Original idea, +rep.

  14. #14

    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    I know the Bible pretty well too--if you need help just PM me . This is a great idea for a mod.
    Make America great again!

  15. #15

    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    great idea, I would definatly play, I can help out for I am learning skinning, and can do 2d artwork, but I am a little busy, so I wouldnt be able to help you for about a week. If I find some spare time I will make some sigs and faction symbols, just send me ideas for faction symbols.

    Tyrtaeus

    Formerly Tyrtaeus



  16. #16
    Fight!'s Avatar Question Everything.
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    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    So Hell has one uncapturable city? And gets cities that rebel? Shouldn't Humans get cities that rebel since they live there? And to win shouldn't Hell be capturable?
    Roll over the names for quotes

    Aristotle || Buddha || Musashi


    Under the proud patronage of Saint Nicholas
    Proud patron of ★Bandiera Rossa☭

  17. #17
    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    About teh sky- do you know how EOD 1 has that whole oppressive and choking atmosphere? Maybe you can try to replicate that by making the red darker like in that sea that you made earlier on. Cuz now it just looks pink...Make it more evil-looking
    I can help you with some quotes from the Bible and Milton and stuff like that if I have a little spare time on my hands.

  18. #18
    Benz282's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio Caesar View Post
    About teh sky- do you know how EOD 1 has that whole oppressive and choking atmosphere? Maybe you can try to replicate that by making the red darker like in that sea that you made earlier on. Cuz now it just looks pink...Make it more evil-looking
    I can help you with some quotes from the Bible and Milton and stuff like that if I have a little spare time on my hands.
    The sea itself is black right now, the red you see is from the refection of the sky. I will tinker around with it a bit though so that it does look more EVIL!!!

    As for the quotes, that might be nice later on in production (for loading screens, etc), but not right now. The mod has hardly any work put into it atm (up till yesterday, I was busy finishing my AAR), but now that I've got free time, production will resume.

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoisbest
    So Hell has one uncapturable city?
    Perhaps not completely uncapturable, but I would make it a to hold on to (it does represent the "gate" to Hell, after-all). That would mean a TON of unrest, and so the only logical reason to take it would be to take all other Hell-controlled territories first (so that taking "Hell" would kill the faction).

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoisbest
    ...And gets cities that rebel?
    Hell gets the cities that rebel from the other demon factions. Imagine it as if "Hell" is in control of the other demons, and has only placed the conquered territories under their jurisdiction because they have proven themselves worthy. If a demon-controlled settlement rebels, the "mother-faction" of Hell takes control of that settlement, assuming that the former demon-owner is no longer able/worthy of that honor.

    Also, since "Hell" starts out with only one region, the rebellions give it a chance to expand rather quickly (which it needs, considering the demon factions are much more powerful than it to start out).

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoisbest
    Shouldn't Humans get cities that rebel since they live there?
    If a human settlement rebels, the inhabitants obviously aren't happy living under the rule of the King. Thus, they join a shadow faction of the Human Kingdom. However, if a settlement controlled by the shadow faction rebels, then it will join the Human Kingdom.

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoisbest
    Don't base it to much on the bible Benz!
    I wont. The bible and Diablo serve as the inspiration for this mod, but it will by no means be based entirely off either of them. Even if I did go down the bible path, it would take a lot of guess-work to make buildings and units for Heaven and Hell.

  19. #19
    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    Sure, goodluck on the mod, it sounds cool.
    PM me when you are ready for the quotes.

  20. #20
    Fight!'s Avatar Question Everything.
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    Default Re: An Epic Heaven vs Hell Mod?

    oh everyone please don't try to pressure him into making this one of those acurate boring bible games. Don't base it to much on the bible Benz!
    Roll over the names for quotes

    Aristotle || Buddha || Musashi


    Under the proud patronage of Saint Nicholas
    Proud patron of ★Bandiera Rossa☭

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