Bank scripting

[GrnEyedDvl]

I am working on the banking part of my economy, and thought I would ask for some ideas and some input. I am not going to reveal yet how your city earns the various banking buildings, but you guys can give me some ideas about the bank levels and capabilities.

Here is what I am thinking for levels:
Money Changer
Money Lender
Merchant Banker
Banking Guild

Now the player will be able to borrow money from the bank, and pay it back over time. Should the repayment be automatic, as in a deduction from the Kings Purse for x amount of turns?

Or should the player have to manually repay the loan somehow?

I am leaning towards a manual repayment method. This will allow me to set up some kind of credit report, but I havent entirely figured out how I want that to work. Ideas there are welcome too.

How big should the loans be for each level?

Multiple amounts for each level that the player can choose from? This is doable through scripting.

Any thoughts?

[Tsarsies]

Sounds like an interesting system your working on. I like the idea of manual repayment over automatic, simply because it forces the player to manage his finances. You could have a pop up message each turn whilst the player is in debt to the bank that enables the player the option to repay some or all of a loan. although i for one kind of hate continuous pop ups every turn, so maybe the request scroll info on the building in question could be used when the layer wants to repay.

I dont think the player should be able to withdraw much at all from the first tier of the bank buildings. Although you could just lower the interest they would pay on each loan as each bank tier is reached...

have you thought of having some kind of 'bank police' who could maybe spawn outside a capital and lay siege if a player refuses to repay the loan altogether?

Will the banks themselves raise the income in that settlement slightly aswell, to simulate the locals banking? Maybe the highest tier would allow other factions to withdraw funds from your treasury and they are forced to repay at a higher interest rate, this way the player could make a little cash through the local banking system.

[GrnEyedDvl]

Sounds like an interesting system your working on. I like the idea of manual repayment over automatic, simply because it forces the player to manage his finances. You could have a pop up message each turn whilst the player is in debt to the bank that enables the player the option to repay some or all of a loan. although i for one kind of hate continuous pop ups every turn, so maybe the request scroll info on the building in question could be used when the layer wants to repay.

I am thinking of allowing the player to repay whenever he wants by using one of the buttons to initiate repayment, either full or partial. If the player doesnt make a minimum payment within X number of turns he will get a popup, and a hit on his credit score which will affect future loans, both interest rates and the amount he can borrow.

I dont think the player should be able to withdraw much at all from the first tier of the bank buildings. Although you could just lower the interest they would pay on each loan as each bank tier is reached...

This is what I have laid out for amounts so far:
Money Changer 500 1000 1500
Money Lender 1500 2000 2500
Merchant Banker 3000 4000 5000
Banking Guild 5000 7500 10000

That is certainly subject to change, but its a good starting point I think. Still thinking about repayment schedules, but I am thinking 5-7 turns for the low end loans, 10-12 turns for the mid range, and 20-25 turns for 7500 and up.

have you thought of having some kind of 'bank police' who could maybe spawn outside a capital and lay siege if a player refuses to repay the loan altogether?

Well I havent considered having an army lay siege, after all I doubt thats very accurate historically, but there are some penalties involved that are tied into other parts of my economy

Will the banks themselves raise the income in that settlement slightly aswell, to simulate the locals banking?

I currently have a trade_base_income_bonus for each level of bank to represent what goes on in the private sector, and just having the bank in the settlement attracts other businesses.

There is also a chance your banker might not exactly play by the rules. He might be a bit loose with his book keeping, which will have an effect on other parts of the economy, along with a few other nasty surprises.

Maybe the highest tier would allow other factions to withdraw funds from your treasury and they are forced to repay at a higher interest rate, this way the player could make a little cash through the local banking system.

I wouldnt want to attempt to script it for anything other than the local faction, it would get to be too big. The AI factions will have their own banks, and some simple money scripts that go along with them to give them the financial edge when they need it, such as when war is declared or a city sieged or a crusade called.

[alpaca]

From a design point of view, why do you think banks make sense? Typically you'd take a loan when you're in a situation where you need some extra money or are simply threatened by going broke, like an expensive war (this is also basically the historical background). The thing is that going into the red numbers doesn't really bear much of a penalty in the game right now so you can just pay it out of your "giro" if you want. You couldn't recruit any new units with that, granted, but you don't pay interest either.

I think if you implement banks you should go for the automatic route, everything else is just annoying.

[GrnEyedDvl]

From a design point of view, why do you think banks make sense? Typically you'd take a loan when you're in a situation where you need some extra money or are simply threatened by going broke, like an expensive war (this is also basically the historical background).

There were actually several English kings that took loans, and never repaid them. Those are just the ones I know of. Theres enough of a historical precedent there for me, and as this is being designed for a fantasy mod anyways I am not truly that interested in the historical accuracy. I will throw it out there for anyone else who wishes to use it though.

The thing is that going into the red numbers doesn't really bear much of a penalty in the game right now so you can just pay it out of your "giro" if you want. You couldn't recruit any new units with that, granted, but you don't pay interest either.

In vanilla there are no penalties, there are several the way I have it laid out now. I am not going to go into too much detail as this is part of a much larger economics package that isnt totally worked out yet, but some of the penalties are actually pretty severe. Also consider it tied in with something like the Influence script that I know you are working on, and you can do quite a bit with it. Interest can be scripted as well.

I think if you implement banks you should go for the automatic route, everything else is just annoying.

It could get annoying depending on how you force the player to repay, thats why I am asking for ideas. If you make it automatic, then there are no penalties as there is never a late payment or a refusal to pay.

[alpaca]

It could get annoying depending on how you force the player to repay, thats why I am asking for ideas. If you make it automatic, then there are no penalties as there is never a late payment or a refusal to pay.

Well you could still add events to allow the player to stop repaying some loans or something but a pop-up for every loan every turn is just too annoying, believe me

[J@mes]

From a design point of view, why do you think banks make sense? Typically you'd take a loan when you're in a situation where you need some extra money or are simply threatened by going broke, like an expensive war (this is also basically the historical background). The thing is that going into the red numbers doesn't really bear much of a penalty in the game right now so you can just pay it out of your "giro" if you want. You couldn't recruit any new units with that, granted, but you don't pay interest either.

I think if you implement banks you should go for the automatic route, everything else is just annoying.

Just a suggestion maybe if your credit is in the red maybe this could effect the faction relations if your planning on setting a faction to have the HQ for the bank and reduce the chance of getting another loan maybe?

[GrnEyedDvl]

No no it wouldnt be a popup every turn, I agree that would be annoying.

I was thinking more along the lines of the player opens a settlement that has a bank, clicks one of the buttons, zoom to settlement or whatever, and gets an option to repay part or all of the loan. It would be totally up to the player to decide when to repay.

If he doesnt repay within X turns (depending on loan size) he gets a popup message from the bank, and a hit on his credit. If he doesnt make a payment within X turns after that popup, he gets another one and some severe penalties..

The way you handle multiple payment options is by tying a new popup to the Decline button.

You currently owe 1500, first popup when you click the Make Payment gives the option to pay it all, Accept deducts the full balance, Decline give a new popup to pay 500. Accept deducts 500, Decline gives new popup to pay 100. Accept deducts 100, decline makes a payment of 0.

Make similar stages for all loan amounts, if you borrowed 7500 then it might be 7500, 5000, 2500, 1500, 500, 100.

For interest, instead of doing traditional interest rates you set a standard fee for each loan amount. Say 500 costs you an extra 100 so total of 500. Late fees you could pile up in different ways, just keep track of it with a counter. The real problem is that since I havent figured out a way to have a variable show properly in the popup windows you would have to script an event for each amount owed, time consuming but not complicated.

[Ataegina]

sounds very cool

[SigniferOne]

I vote for an automatic system at first.

First of all, this will mean the AI can use your system along with the player.

Secondly, this will be a quicker and easier implementation, so that once it works you can start planning making something more complicated (i.e. with manual repayments and credit reports).

[Ataegina]

perhaps the system could reduce the faction reputation or even create rebellions or war if the the king don't repaid...

[GrnEyedDvl]

I am doing some more work on this today in between other stuff. I will post some details soon.

[Kinjo]

I like it, nice job!

[Quark]

GrnEyedDvl
If your using history as any guide then I suspect you have two many buildings in your chain. Such banks/families as those in Florence, Venice and Genoa that lent money to princes where main establishments, not street money changers. You could have a long chain, but only allow the top set to allow loans (how much depends on how tight your economy is 10,000 in one mod can be alot, in another get you land clearance), but I would think that having such available in all settlements is not the way to go. imo it would be better on size of settlement, hidden resource or faction based.

You mention english loans, so suspect you are referring to Edward III and Hundred Years war, in which the banks that he defaulted on went bankrupt.

If you have trade fair events in your mod, these were used as dates for repayments, so you could tie the two together, perhaps having a console command to reduce cash (interest) on the loan (20-25% should be about right historically).

[GrnEyedDvl]

My mod is not based on anything historical, so I can do whatever I want

For others, once I release this part of it they are free to edit anything they wish.

[Furin]

I had an idea for a building called "money stash" or something like that, the idea behind it came from DLV where scripted events have a negative or positive effect on your income. This money stash building would cost a lot of money and perhaps add a very small happyness bonus, once you destroy it you get back the money you spend on it. That's good for saving some cash for bad times.

Of course this could be done with a money lender event too, just that you are asked to deposit money and you will get it back in a fixed time with a small interest perhaps...

[GrnEyedDvl]

Hmmm I never thought of using the bank to store money, just lend...:hmmm:

[SigniferOne]

You could make an "investment" building, which you hold for as long as you want, and then "cash in" (by destroying it) whenever you want to.

[TheFirstONeill]

You could make an "investment" building, which you hold for as long as you want, and then "cash in" (by destroying it) whenever you want to.

Excellent concept guys +rep Furin, Sig One and GreeneyedDvl

[GrnEyedDvl]

I am going to publish this, probably before Christmas. I need to clean up a few things first and get some input. Anyone will be free to use this for whatever they want, Kingdoms only.

The current version does not have a credit_score built into it, but you will pay interest that is "hardcoded" into the script since we cant do real calculations. A version with interest would add money to your debt dependent on how fast you pay, but I want to get this out there.

Someone told me it couldnt be done.

I made 3 levels for banking, with two levels of loans each:
money_changer 1000, 2500
money_lender 5000, 7500
banker 7500, 10000

Borrow 1000 and owe 1200
Borrow 2500 and owe 3000

Borrow 5000 and owe 6000
Borrow 7500 and owe 9000

Borrow 10000 and owe 12000

Thats pretty much a flat 20% interest rate.

Pay money back when you click the Finances button. More details later as I finish some stuff up.