Anyone else get the impression that there was a back story to the Screeching Women unit?

Like an inside joke of sorts. Maybe a female in one of developer's lives was nagging him about spending too much time on the computer?

If that is so, I wouldn't want to know who had the habit of burning pigs alive.

Originally Posted by Selifator

If that is so, I wouldn't want to know who had the habit of burning pigs alive.

hAHA

Originally Posted by Selifator

If that is so, I wouldn't want to know who had the habit of burning pigs alive.

Didn't the early Romans actually do that? By early, I mean well before they had an empire past Italy.


But the head hurlers are kinda stupid.

lets not go into the head hurlers huh...

Originally Posted by msTubbZ

lets not go into the head hurlers huh...

they have a historical basis. it was quite common to fire humans heads and decapitated bodies to unnerve enemies. The fact they were covered in quicklime made them even more shocking: getting hurt by your own former allies.

I'm wondering who it was who put a supercharger in a chariot...

Or thought that you can kill the guys in front of a chariot with spikes that point upwards, like those guys are going to jump on them. And block your line of sight.

Originally Posted by Selifator

Or thought that you can kill the guys in front of a chariot with spikes that point upwards, like those guys are going to jump on them. And block your line of sight.

Lol, they look fancy too, maybe they're the older version of go faster stripes - go faster spikes.

Also (off topic) I've just started reading Ctrl + Alt + Del, so now I know what your avatar's all about I love Ethan (not in a gay way )

Uh, don't think so. If they did, it must've been an isolated incident, and probably didn't work, as I've never actually heard of it being used in actual history.

Originally Posted by Scutarii

Uh, don't think so. If they did, it must've been an isolated incident, and probably didn't work, as I've never actually heard of it being used in actual history.

But it can't have been a complete disaster because we know about them (Teutenburg forest for example)

Originally Posted by Scutarii

Uh, don't think so. If they did, it must've been an isolated incident, and probably didn't work, as I've never actually heard of it being used in actual history.

they did actually. Pliny the Elder stated that they were used to scare off elephants (successfully I might add), who couldn't stand the squeal of pigs. But they were used very rarely

The Romans used pigs to scare horse, fire was used to scare the pigs to send them off in the right direction.
Head hurlers were basic notion of most babrbaric celtic cultures. Like scalping one would dislodge a head and then hurle it for pyschological damage.
The Screeching woman can be found up to gothic armies of the middle ages. Families often accompanied armies on the move and during the battles the women and such would gather in a place mostly by the wagons to witness the battle. There would be screeching involved.
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Bmw M5 (E34) History

While their is 'some' documented use of incendiary pigs used to frighten elephants by the Roman Empire (according to wikipedia, but who knows where the writer of that article got there info from) such as against Pyrrhus, head hurlers are a total fantasy unit, although the celts did used to take the heads of enemies they deemed worthy and preserved them. They did not go head-"hunting", but if they happened to kill a worthy enemy, would take their head, as the head was venerated among their various religions.
I can't for the life of me find any reference to screeching women in germanic armies. Keep in mind that all of these units are removed from any mods that say they want any resmblance of historical accuracy, so I'm inclined to believe that none were used consistently in the military.

Head hurlers were basic notion of most babrbaric celtic cultures. Like scalping one would dislodge a head and then hurle it for pyschological damage.

I've only seen this in two places (possibly three ...). First: AD&D 1E Deities and Demigods, in the Celtic Mythos section, talks about tathlums, which involve removing the head of an enemy and coating it in various coats of lime, following which it was a potentially dangerous thrown weapon.
Second: Michael Moorcock's Chronicles of Corum had the same thing, though I can't remember which book in particular.
Possible third: There *might* have been mention of it in the Mabinogion or in Irish myths, but it's been a long time since I've read the Mabinogion and I don't know the Irish myths well enough to know where to look.

Pliny the elder said that romans used burning pigs as weapons, and hes a notable historian. but hes the only notable one. though nothing contradicts him i believe.

Because some here have not heard of them does not make it historical fact that they didn't exist lol. Nor for that matter does having them in-game actually mean that they did exist.

As for mods removing them.. well thats more likely a case of personal preferences then historical accuracy. Gladiators existed but they are keen to remove them more often then not b/c they never learned how to use them correctly.

More importantly by removing certain units you run a serious risk of unbalancing the game. All barbarian faction units have low morale but are compensated by certain units that either boost morale of their own units or to lower that of their enemies. Germania doesn't get druids but instead screeching women. Every stack should have a unit, specialy early game when lacking experience otherwise your spearmen may end up routing before the enemy.

Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar

As for mods removing them.. well thats more likely a case of personal preferences then historical accuracy. Gladiators existed but they are keen to remove them more often then not b/c they never learned how to use them correctly.

True, gladiators existed, I doubt anyone will argue that ... but I was under the impression that they were never integrated into the army as a specific unit because, you know, the Romans had some bad experiences with uprisings. Also saying that people take them out of modified versions because they don't know how to use them, unless you have statements from the designers, probably wrong. The gladiators are high-morale, loose formation light infantry; kind of hard not to use them "correctly."

Originally Posted by Entropy Judge

Also saying that people take them out of modified versions because they don't know how to use them, unless you have statements from the designers, probably wrong. The gladiators are high-morale, loose formation light infantry; kind of hard not to use them "correctly."

Thats what mods are. Personal preferences. They alter a game to suit a persons particular style of play.

Why do I need statements from designers lol The fact is there is an effective use for gladiators and screeching women in RTW and their effective use demonstates at least to me that they are being used as CA intended. You use spearmen against cav effectively but without a statement from the designers you probably wrong aye??? funny no?

I don't see much write up about the effective use of screeching women or gladiators so I guess people don't know how to use them. You know gladiators can be used better then just defending stone walls. The Brutii get gladiators from the first amphitheatre and whys that? The gadiator is the only
recruitable unit the Romans get that are effective against chariots. The only unit. So why the hell would anyone remove them. My guess is that some just don't know how to use them effectively.

...and yes I have played many mods. Removing so called fantasy units and adding a whole stack of new approved fantasy units is not what I consider as balanced. Oh sure Romans do well without gladiators and why wouldn't they since Egyptian Chariots also end up chopped. I guarantee you that the game is very winnable playing as the Romans with only Town watch but were's the fun in that? Each to his own I guess. The games easy enough as it is so I don't need to make it any easier.

As for historical accuracy the gladiator does go beyond the simple entertainment they provided. There is documented evidence that they were used as trainers and in combat.

Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar

Thats what mods are. Personal preferences. They alter a game to suit a persons particular style of play.

Slight disagreement, but overall I agree.

Why do I need statements from designers lol The fact is there is an effective use for gladiators and screeching women in RTW and their effective use demonstates at least to me that they are being used as CA intended. You use spearmen against cav effectively but without a statement from the designers you probably wrong aye??? funny no?

Not what I said. What I said is that saying that people remove units because they don't understand how to use them is wrong *unless you have their authority on that.* Your statement about spearmen has no relation to what I was saying; it is a fact, and in the coding of the game if I'm not mistaken, that spearmen are effective against cavalry. For example: I do not use Gladiators, but it's not because I don't know how to use them. It is because, when I play as the Romans, I prefer to use their heavy infantry with archer and cavalry support. My armies are literally made up of nothing except Principes (Hastati if I'm not far enough)/Legions, Cretan Archers/Roman Archers/Rhodian or Balearic Slingers, and a few cavalry. That's it, unless I toss in Merc. Hoplites for a Wall o' Spears. Half the stack will be infantry. Does that mean that I don't know how to use the other Roman units, or other units besides heavy infantry? No, but that's what you're trying to argue.

I don't see much write up about the effective use of screeching women or gladiators so I guess people don't know how to use them.

I've always found their uses very intuitive, such that I can't really think that someone *wouldn't* know how to use them effectively.

You know gladiators can be used better then just defending stone walls. The Brutii get gladiators from the first amphitheatre and whys that? The gadiator is the only
recruitable unit the Romans get that are effective against chariots. The only unit. So why the hell would anyone remove them. My guess is that some just don't know how to use them effectively.

Because the Romans don't need them? I've only had trouble once with chariots - the first time I played as Egypt. Stupid things kept breaking and killing off my family members. I've never had trouble fighting them, no matter which faction I was using.

...and yes I have played many mods. Removing so called fantasy units and adding a whole stack of new approved fantasy units is not what I consider as balanced.

Eh, the only mod I've played is EB, so I don't know which one you're talking about.

As for historical accuracy the gladiator does go beyond the simple entertainment they provided. There is documented evidence that they were used as trainers and in combat.

I know about using them as trainers, but not in combat. Could you post a link or cite a source so I can see it?