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  1. #1
    Vampire's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Controlling the freedom of speech . . .

    Please send more complaints

    Otherwise how will our taxpayer-funded hate police manage to keep their cozy sinecure?

    MARK STEYN | April 23, 2008 |

    Last week's letters page included a missive from Jennifer Lynch, Q.C., chief commissioner of the Canadian "Human Rights" Commission, defending her employees from the accusation of "improper investigative techniques" by yours truly. Steyn, she writes, "provides no substantiation for these claims," and then concludes:

    "Why is this all important? Because words are important. Steyn would have us believe that words, however hateful, should be given free rein. History has shown us that hateful words sometimes lead to hurtful actions that undermine freedom and have led to unspeakable crimes. That is why Canada and most other democracies have enacted legislation to place reasonable limits on the expression of hatred."

    Hmm. "History has shown us that hateful words sometimes lead to hurtful actions that undermine freedom and have led to unspeakable crimes." Commissar Lynch provides, as she would say, "no substantiation for these claims." But then she's a "hate speech" prosecutor and, as we know, Canada's "human rights" procedures aren't subject to tiresome requirements like evidence. So she's made an argument from authority: the great Queen's Counsel has risen from her throne in the Star Chamber and pronounced, and let that suffice. Those of us who occupy less exalted positions in the realm might wish to ponder the evidence for her assertions.

    It's true that "hurtful actions that undermine freedom" and lead to "unspeakable crimes" usually have some fig leaf of intellectual justification. For example, the ideology first articulated by Karl Marx has led to the deaths of millions of people around the planet on an unprecedented scale. Yet oddly enough, no matter how many folks are murdered in the name of Marxism-Leninism, you're still free to propound its principles at every college in Canada.

    Ah, but that's the Good Totalitarianism. What about the Bad Totalitarianism? You know, the one everybody disapproves of: Nazism. Isn't it obvious that in the case of Adolf Hitler, "hateful words" led to "unspeakable crimes"? This argument is offered routinely: if only there'd been "reasonable limits on the expression of hatred" 70 years ago, the Holocaust might have been prevented.

    There's just one teensy-weensy problem with it: pre-Nazi Germany had such "reasonable limits." Indeed, the Weimar Republic was a veritable proto-Trudeaupia. As Alan Borovoy, Canada's leading civil libertarian, put it:

    "Remarkably, pre-Hitler Germany had laws very much like the Canadian anti-hate law. Moreover, those laws were enforced with some vigour. During the 15 years before Hitler came to power, there were more than 200 prosecutions based on anti-Semitic speech. And, in the opinion of the leading Jewish organization of that era, no more than 10 per cent of the cases were mishandled by the authorities. As subsequent history so painfully testifies, this type of legislation proved ineffectual on the one occasion when there was a real argument for it."

    Inevitably, the Nazi party exploited the restrictions on "free speech" in order to boost its appeal. In 1925, the state of Bavaria issued an order banning Adolf Hitler from making any public speeches. The Nazis responded by distributing a drawing of their leader with his mouth gagged and the caption, "Of 2,000 million people in the world, one alone is forbidden to speak in Germany."

    The idea that "hate speech" led to the Holocaust is seductive because it's easy: if only we ban hateful speech, then there will be no hateful acts. But, as professor Anuj C. Desai of the University of Wisconsin Law School points out, "Biased speech has been around since history began. As a logical matter, then, it is no more helpful to say that anti-Semitic speech caused the Holocaust than to say organized government caused it, or, for that matter, to say that oxygen caused it. All were necessary ingredients, but all have been present in every historical epoch in every country in the world."

    Just so. Indeed, the principal ingredient unique to the pre-Hitler era was the introduction of Jennifer Lynch-type hate-speech laws that supposedly protect vulnerable minorities from "unspeakable acts." You might as well argue that Weimar's "reasonable limits" on free speech led to the Holocaust: after all, while anti-Semitism is "the oldest hatred," it didn't turn genocidal until the "reasonable limits" proponents of the day introduced group-defamation laws to Germany. 'Tween-wars Europe was awash in prototype hate-crimes legislation. For example, the Versailles Conference required the new postwar states to sign on to the 1919 Minorities Protection Treaty, with its solemn guarantees of non-discrimination. I'm sure Canada's many Jews of Mitteleuropean origin will be happy to testify to what a splendid job that far-sighted legislation did.

    The problem the Jews found themselves up against in Germany and elsewhere was not the lack of hate-speech laws but the lack of protection of the common or garden laws — against vandalism and property appropriation and suchlike. One notes, by the way, that property rights are absent from Canada's modish Charter of Rights. The reductio ad Hitlerum is the laziest form of argument, so it's no surprise to find the defenders of the ever-more-intrusive "human rights" enforcers taking refuge in it. But it stands history on its head. Most of us have a vague understanding that Hitler used the burning of the Reichstag in February 1933 as a pretext to "seize" dictatorial powers. But, in fact, he didn't "seize" anything because he didn't need to. He merely invoked Article 48 of the Weimar Republic's constitution, allowing the state, in the interests of the greater good, to set — what's the phrase? — "reasonable limits" on freedom of the press, freedom of expression, freedom of association, freedom from unlawful search and seizure and surveillance of postal and electronic communications. The Nazis didn't invent a dictatorship out of whole cloth. They merely took advantage of the illiberal provisions of a supposedly liberal constitution.

    Oh, and by the way, almost all those powers the Nazis "seized" the morning after the Reichstag fire, the "human rights" commissions already have. In the name of cracking down on "hate," Canada's "human rights" apparatchiks can enter your premises without a warrant and remove any relevant "document or thing" (as the relevant Ontario legislation puts it) for as long as they want it. And without anybody burning the House of Commons or even the Senate.

    As for "freedom of the press," in her now celebrated decision to dismiss the Canadian Islamic Congress complaint against Maclean's, Barbara Hall of the Ontario "Human Rights" Commission acknowledged that she did not have jurisdiction over magazines. So she ruled that, while she didn't have the power to toss us in the clink, she'd certainly like to and we certainly deserve it. Commissar Hall suggested that if my words had appeared on a sign rather than in a magazine article, she would be free to haul my hatemongerin' ass into the dock. Makes sense to me. So I've now put the offending excerpt from my book on a placard and I'll be in Toronto in the first week of May to drop it off at her office. I look forward to the prosecution. Given that we've already been found guilty, I don't think I've got much to fear from the trial.

    Happily, beginning on July 1, under Ontario's "human rights" reforms, Commissar Hall will have far greater powers to initiate prosecutions against all and sundry. Under the new proposals, " 'hate incident' means any act or omission, whether criminal or not, that expresses bias, prejudice, bigotry or contempt toward a vulnerable or disadvantaged community or its members." "Act or omission"? Of course. The act of not acting in an insufficiently non-hateful way can itself be hateful. Whether or not the incident is a non-incident is incidental. I quote from "Concepts Of Race And Racism And Implications For OHRC Policy" as published on the OHRC website:

    "The denial of racism used by so many whites in positions of authority ranging from the supervisor in a work place to the chief of Police and ministers of government must be understood for what it is: an example of White hegemonic power over those considered 'other.' "

    Got that? Your denial of racism merely confirms your racism — because simply by being a "White hegemon" (like Barbara Hall or Jennifer Lynch) you wield racist power. The author, Frances Henry, cites the thinking of "modern neo-Marxist theorists" as if these are serious views that persons of influence in Canada's "human rights" establishment ought to be taking into account, rather than just the latest variant of an ideology that's led to the deaths of millions in Russia, China and everywhere else it's been put into practice. Yet, underneath the blather about "omissions" and "denial" of racism is the bleak acknowledgement that, alas, Canadians just aren't hateful enough to justify the cozy sinecure of taxpayer-funded hate police. "I would say that for a province as large and as diverse as Ontario, to have 2,500 formal complaints a year, that that's a very low level," Commissar Hall said. C'mon, you Ontario deadbeats, can't you hate a little more? Or complain a little more? To modify Brecht, we need to elect a new people, if only to file more "human rights" complaints.

    Oh, and again, isn't that kind of a Nazi thing to do? Exaggerate the threat in order to justify government powers to deal with it?

    Well, look, the defenders of the present "human rights" regime started this whole free-speech-leads-to-the-Holocaust line. I'm not saying that Canada's thought-crime enforcers are planning to murder millions of people, only that (as Jennifer Lynch might put it) history has shown us that extraordinary government powers in the name of "reasonable limits" often lead to hurtful actions that undermine freedom and have led to unspeakable crimes. Whether or not I'm the new Führer and Maclean's is Mein Kampf, Commissars Lynch and Hall are either intentionally inverting the historical record or, to be charitable, simply ignorant. But, if it's the latter, why should they have extraordinary powers to regulate public discourse?

    I don't have as low an opinion of Canadians as Barbara Hall and Jennifer Lynch do. I don't believe your liberty is the conditional discretionary gift of hack bureaucrats advised by Marxist theorists. You defeat bad ideas — whether Nazism, Marxism, jihadism, Steynism or Trudeaupian pseudo-"human rights" mumbo-jumbo — in the bracing air and light of day, in vigorous open debate, not in the fetid corridors of power policed by ahistorical nitwits.

    It's not a left/right thing. It's not a gay/straight thing. It's not a Jew/Muslim thing. It's not a hateful Steyn/nice fluffy caring compassionate Canadian thing.

    It's a free/unfree thing. And the commissars are on the wrong side.
    Long article but interesting. I agree completely with it as history had proved it again and again that controling the freedom of speech is a bad thing to do.

    What you think abot it? Shoul the speech be free or restricted?

    But really now . . . this is for real? It is actualy hapening in Canada?
    None are so blind as those who refuse to see!
    None are so deaf as those who refuse to hear!
    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsley believe they are free!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Controlling the freedom of speech . . .

    There is no such thing as total freedom of speech, and its impossible to achieve.

  3. #3
    EmperorJulian's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Controlling the freedom of speech . . .

    I don't believe opposition to politically correct restrictions on speech constitute taking up a position that NO limits on speech are permissible. In the US itself there has been for many years certain forms of speech, like fighting words meant to directly insight aggression against a person or group are certainly not protected forms of discourse, same with the oft-quoted situation of yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre to cause a panic. Absolute freedom, that is anarchy, can hardly be a basis for civilized society, so some limits I can understand. What's going on in Canada however goes way beyond this, and disturbs me to no end.

    The problem is that minor restrictions of expression, based on the ostensible goal of creating a more civilized society have a tendency to grow over time. Not minute to minute mind you but over the years, as these limitations become more comfortable, more draconian and more commonplace it becomes much easier to expand their scope into other previously unrestricted areas. These laws also have a tendency to elevate and enhance the rights/privileges of certain groups to a level greater than that of the rest of the population. In effect, laws meant to equalize minority and majority groups would in the end have the opposite effect.

    The other problem I see is that the scope of these restrictions would, especially in a fairly liberal nation like Canada, eventually be used to silence more conservative or traditional view points, be they religious (Christian) or simply of a moral stature (anti-abortion). In a sense anything could be termed hate speech if it's against anything else. And with any kind of PC motivated limitations on expression to me there is an inevitable danger of persecution being the end result. Not mind you from actual forward planning, but just the final result of a process that could very well take decades to develop. Thus perverting a system that was developed with the "best intentions" to protect minority groups, into a bludgeon with which unpopular groups (even if in the majority) could be targeted for destruction.

    The long run ramifications of this sort of thing is what really concerns me, more than anything else. And I'm saddened that Canada is going in the direction that it is. I have to ask myself, really, how long do we have before thought crimes are a reality? It might not be tomorrow, but I'd wager barring a change in policy we could see something like that in the next 50 years.
    Under the Patronage of Valus the Indefatigable.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Controlling the freedom of speech . . .

    Mark Steyn is the Retard that advocated Genocide in Bosnia as means too control the Muslim population.

  5. #5
    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
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    Default Re: Controlling the freedom of speech . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Burnum View Post
    Mark Steyn is the Retard that advocated Genocide in Bosnia as means too control the Muslim population.
    Which means what? Would you ban this speech or just emoting you opinion of Mark Steyn?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Controlling the freedom of speech . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking Prince View Post
    Which means what? Would you ban this speech or just emoting you opinion of Mark Steyn?
    Context is important. In Mark Steyn's article, he alleges that Islam is an underground movement trying to take over the world. It's an Insane bigoted rant that has affected the life of Canadian Muslims.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Controlling the freedom of speech . . .

    I think I might start posting stuff from bin Laden, probably has a roughly equal level of credibility to Steyn.

  8. #8
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Controlling the freedom of speech . . .

    I get the feeling Mark Steyn has never read his Mill. Free speech should be accepted, but speech inciting should be restricted. Is he saying we should accept speech that incites murder? No? Then he's accepting a limitation on freedom of speech. Is he saying we should accept speech in the manner of shouting fire in a crowded theatre? Another limitation on free speech. In fact, is he saying more generally that we should never stop people saying anything - for instance, letting someone teach that the Holocaust never happened in a history classroom? Is he advocating libel?

    The problem isn't a matter of any control of free speech. It's a matter of what control of free speech we want.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Controlling the freedom of speech . . .

    Congratulations on your discovery that freedom of speech cannt be total. There will simply always be restrictions. You are able to talk about anything, but in what way is usually the restricted part. Like, I can say that I humped my girlfriend last night on this forum but I cannot post a detailed summary of the action along with matching pictures.



    Sadly enough....
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  10. #10
    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
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    Default Re: Controlling the freedom of speech . . .

    Speech can certainly be curtailed. There is a difference to yelling fire in a packed and dark room (movie theatre or dance hall) and publishing an opinion piece. The problem with banning the printed word means that you are arguing that a reasonable (or even a quite unreasonable) person is unable to conreol ones actions under even the most controled circumstances.

    I cannot condone speaking to a mob and exhorting them on to violence. The same speech in a printed pamphlet distrbuted to a mob may also have legal consequences, but the banning of the pamphlet itself should not be banned. Individual responsibility for ones actions should be the deciding factor.

    Another example: Patrick Henry's "Give me liberty speech" was delivered to the Virginia house of Burgesses (as I recall). The same speech given on a boston street corner after an incident involving British military would be taken in a differant light. One is clearly protected and one is suspect. Same words and two differant audiances.

  11. #11
    Hound of Ulster's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Controlling the freedom of speech . . .

    Steyn is an ass. And a bigoted ass at that.

    Speech in open market of ideas should, ideally, not be regulated, but there is an interest on the part of society to at least monitor the market of ideas, as words can, and have, killed.
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