Iowa versus New Orleans - what are the lessons?

[Count of Montesano]

So, a number of political pundits are looking at the current flooding in Iowa versus the flooding of New Orleans after Katrina.

The right wing pundits are saying this is a classic example of self reliance versus waiting for government assistance. That the reason fewer people have died in Iowa is the farmers are take-charge kind of people, while in New Orleans the majority of people caught in the disaster were poor and on government assistance. It's seen as a triumph of good ole fashioned American self-reliance, and a denial that any sort of social program or safety net is doomed to failure.

The left wing pundits are pointing out this is yet another disaster caused by climate change and that racism had a big hand in how fast federal and state agencies responded when white middle class people were drowning verus when poor black people were drowning.

So, my question to the TWC community - are there any lessons to be learned from New Orleans and Iowa? Is climate change to blame for both disasters, considering Katrina was one of the worst hurricanes in recorded history and the Iowa flood is being called a "once in every 500 years" event? Was racism a factor? Should American society stop relying on the federal government to help in emergencies? Can the two disasters even be compared, considering Iowa is far less densely populated than New Orleans and the flooding happened more gradually than the sudden levee breaks after Katrina?

[Joker85]

Combination of things. Obviously people sitting around on their fat asses waiting for the government to come save them is not as advisable as being proactive. Of course the media went crazy during katrina hyping up wide spread murder, chaos, looting, and rape to the point where they had to assemble a convoy of soldiers just back from Iraq to bring the freaking aid in. Only to find out it was all overblown.

So you can't really compare the situations completely. But yeah I agree with the concept that a self reliant people are far more likely to survive a breakdown of services than a people that have been raised and conditioned to believe they need the government to sustain them.

[Chlodwig I.]

Sorry but you can't compare these to catastrophies
one was caused by a hurrican to a city thats beneath the Ocean Level
the other by don't know rain, snow melting?

so the time to prepare for the flood should have been much higher
compared to the time when the sea walls broke in New Orleans

but in both cases the regional Government didn't do its job on building strong and high enough dams or sea walls.

And concerning the Iowa Flood in my country we had in the last 10 years two times a "100 Year Flood" event at the same
river/region.
So if I would live in Iowa I wouldn't count on beeing save for the next 499 years

[Sphere]

I already started a thread explaining the Engineering failure in New Orleans. But to sum it up, the Army Corps of Engineers (ACoE) design of the I-Wall levee system was flawed, and failed prematurely. If ACoE had created a proper design and followed standard civil engineering practices, New Orleans flooding would have been reduced 300% or more, and katrina would be forgotten by now.

The Mississippi flooding is somewhat different. I have heard some complaints about the ACoE (who have authority over the Mississippi), but this is a 500 year flood, which is the uppermost flood you would ever design to protect against. Only very important areas are designed for 500 year floods, because this generally requires 35+ foot walls. Although we could get into a disscusion on how levee systems should be replaced by retention systems.

Overall though, I think the a big lesson to learn is that the ACoE is largely not up to the tasks it has been handed. There are good people in the ACoE but in general it has fallen far behind "Civil" Engineers. I know a PHD candidate and Major in the ACoE who will be a Proffessor at West Point eventually; he got stuck doing a combat tour in Iraq. The ACoE has the wrong priorities in my opinion.

[Farnan]

The Army Corps of Engineers is majority civilian, not military.

[JP226]

the only thing NO told us was to make sure your states ass is in gear because it's not the job of the fed. The abhorrent trampling of staes irights in NO was the real tragedy.

[Viking Prince]

Lessons? If you live near water, the level may get much much higher.

Yes, you can have two 100 year floods in ten years. Just the odds. Like flipping a coin. Ten heads means what for the next coin flip?

The two areas are differant. One of the reasons for a greater social safety net today is that we are more urbanized.. Your resources when things go wrong in NO are far fewer than in Iowa. We crowd the disabled into our cities. We are less likely to know many of our neighbors in the city. Etc.

Short answer -- all disasters are differant. We fix things as we go and try to do our best. May God Bless!

[Gelgoog]

where is our little dutch boy to plug the levies?

[Rush Limbaugh]

Too many projects going on. This is what really messing with the enviorment gets you. I hear the new Levees in NO can only withstand a force 2 hurricane. The whole thing is a mess.

[Hound of Ulster]

The two aren't comparable on a lot of levels...

[Rush Limbaugh]

Yeah not enough blacks in the midwest

[Georgy Zhukov]

where is our little dutch boy to plug the levies?

He's in Hitlers Harem, somewhere in South America.

Its look like the feds acted better this time, it may have been because the director of FEMA wasnt a guy who judged horses for a living.

[Luger]

where is our little dutch boy to plug the levies?

You'd have to ask Mary Mapes Dodge, she made it all up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Br..._Silver_Skates

Just build something like this one

[Hound of Ulster]

...there's a thought...

[MaximiIian]

Iowa versus New Orleans - what are the lessons?

Don't go to live in Iowa or New Orleans?

[cfmonkey45]

Apparently, from this and Katrina, we learn that President Bush apparently hates White People just as much as he "hates Black People" (see the racism argument with Katrina). Oh, and also I have learned from this that no matter what happens, even if they are not involved, or even if its not their responsibility, it's always the federal government, and specifically President Bush's fault, as usual, and until we can actually get up of our lazy asses and do something, like Joker85 said.

[Paul d]

Apparently, from this and Katrina, we learn that President Bush apparently hates White People just as much as he "hates Black People" (see the racism argument with Katrina). Oh, and also I have learned from this that no matter what happens, even if they are not involved, or even if its not their responsibility, it's always the federal government, and specifically President Bush's fault, as usual, and until we can actually get up of our lazy asses and do something, like Joker85 said.

because we all know that George Bush is the high dictator of america, and he controls all things, including weather. He has weather controller machines nationwide, disguised as telephone poles. Yes, he wants to make disasters all over America, Yeah, don't blame natural weather cycles, they've been tainted by George Bush! He is the sole reason for global warming! and he Invented the war in Iraq! Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble!




All stupidity aside: The Iowans actually did something about the disasters, and their local government were more efficient on evacuation and such. The Mayor of New Orleans sat on his ass and cried for the federal govt. to do something, because of course he is powerless, after all, he's just the mayor of the city the hurricane hit, of course he couldn't order an evacuation.

[Viking Prince]

No, no, no. The lesson is to live in California -- there is no variety to the disaster in the Mississiooi River basin. Where are the earthquakes, mudslides into the ocean, and grass fires. This does not even touch on the madness of human created misery.