Armour and mortality in battle - unit stats

[St Naffatun]

Taken from a quote in another thread

"Three thousand of those who were called Agulani were said to be present, and they were afraid neither of swords, lances, arrows, nor any kind of arms, because they and their horses were covered with armor verywhere." - Gesta Francorum, the account of the First Crusade written by an anonymous Crusader.

Just HOW do you kill a man or horse covered in armour - the weapons I know of are the composite, crossbow, javelin, mace, some of the Rajput "punching" daggers that covered the wrist, and the good ole axe of course. Maybe following the logic of the Rajput daggers the Gladius might have punched through metal but you would have maybe needed the wrist strength of a gorilla to do it if it's even possible at all without the wrist bending - but that's pure conjecture.

Anyways my point is, would it be realistic to have armoured units to simply be immune to mortality from certain units unable to puncture armour e.g. armoured sergeants killing crossbowmen endlessly without no casualties.

In other words making unit mix vital. Of course this would screw the AI as even if it could be ensured the right recruitment balance, it would be difficult to make it interpret which units to match up against the enemy.

[anaztazioch]

I dont know, if you have, but i fought in plating of 2,5mm in weaker spots to 3,5mm in reinforced breast thick plate mail and 3mm in face to 4,5mm in skull thick helmet, and WOODEN swords leave dents (or indentation). (My order master had a encounter in Grunvald recreation battle, his 4mm face protect with 4,5mm skull protect helmet got CUTTEN by long sword hit from a rider. His forehead was cracked and he was quite shown a bleeding ability)
The "real" plate mail is 4mm thick to 5 in reinforced spots and are fought against Real steel/iron weapons.

[Strelac]

For sake of game advancing, all units must suffer defeat, because defeat, or rather degree of defeat that player sustains, is the only means of making the game "play" and not only time challenging.

[Severloh]

now THAT is something interesting!

But the thing about the armor is, basically, many things can happen. You can bring the armored guy down from it's horse with a lot of guys, if he is in close quarters combat. You can hit his face with a dagger, you can cut the horse's legs, a lot can happen when low strenght but numerous infantry surrounds and attacks an heavy cavalry unit in close combat.

[Aurion]

Hitting them over the head repeatedly with blunt objects always works.

Failing that, go for the joints in armor, especially plate.

[Cromagnon2]

There were allot of weapons in medieval that could pierce trough metal, some crossbows at closer range could do that. Also war hammers, axes and sling hammers with spikes. (Hm, would like to see an unit like that in this mod.) Not to mention that if you fall from your horse in all that armour you could break your neck and never get up.

[anaztazioch]

There were allot of weapons in medieval that could pierce trough metal, some crossbows at closer range could do that. Also war hammers, axes and sling hammers with spikes. (Hm, would like to see an unit like that in this mod.) Not to mention that if you fall from your horse in all that armour you could break your neck and never get up.

The riders breast plate has reinforced neckling to prevent that. Still falling from horse is not pleasant, its a miracle or battle adrenaline if you can stand up on your own.

But lemmar i dont know - never wore any bigger lemmar than chest/torso covering (leaving back uncovered). But its so beautifull "stars in eyes"

[saturday lizard]

[quote=anaztazioch;3202456]. Still falling from horse is not pleasant, its a miracle or battle adrenaline if you can stand up on your own.

Its certainly not nice falling off your horse but bar being badly hurt or poor ground getting up isnt that hard. If your armour is properly fitted and made you should be able to do press ups and foward rolls in it though the rolls can be a bit lumpy

oh and of course watch out for the bugger who handstringed your horse

Re the armour thing while there was armour made to even stop bullets late on(very heavy and very expensive) nothing was immune and maces and the like were very good at breaking bones and if you floored a knight unless you were the very chivilous sort you stabbed him in the armpit or the eyehole

[anaztazioch]

Re the armour thing while there was armour made to even stop bullets late on(very heavy and very expensive)

Negative.
Reinforced armor was as expencive as armor for a guy head higher. Thats not a drastic increase of cost comparing to regular armor. Reinforced armor was too thick to be fully reinforced, so usually it as breast and helmet.
As for weight - Reinforced armor was thicker by atleast 1mm - thats about 20-30% heavier is reinforced parts. Usually not to make armor much heavier, some parts were lightened, or even removed. Polish hussars in their peek of power, aside from reinforced breast plate, hip potects and gauntlets barelly had armor. Back of a rider was protected by light or just by belts holding the breast plate.

Its certainly not nice falling off your horse but bar being badly hurt or poor ground getting up isnt that hard. If your armour is properly fitted and made you should be able to do press ups and foward rolls in it though the rolls can be a bit lumpy

Dont confuse half with full plates. Poorly fit full plate makes you hard to move, well fit restricts the range of movements (cannot fully stright elbow)

[Aurion]

Hmh.

On topic, one of plate armor's joints is in the groin area.

A stab there will stop anybody.

[Strelac]

Thread cleaned.

Stay on the topic of the first post.

[Bull]

Grappling always work, an armoured knights can be restrained and then killed by more numerous serfs.

[anaztazioch]

serfs.

Hit da wave dude lol