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  1. #1
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    Default The Iron Lady



    Britain's greatest Prime Minister or a war mongering traitor to her people?



    My own view is that she saved this country. From smashing the unions, reorganising Britain's uncompetitive and unproductive industries through to the defeat of the Argentinians, she was probably the best Prime Minister this country had throughout the 20th century.
    When she came to power Britain had a national debt equivalent to £11 billion in todays money ($22 billion). Britain had lost her position on the world stage in 1956 during the Suez crisis and at home was crippled by endless strike actions and shortages. The iRA were able to bomb Britain with impunity and we were known as "The Sick Man of Europe". Because of Thatcher Britain holds her current position as one of the world's strongest powers, while the city of London became the world's financial centre.

    "The Soviets said I was an iron lady. They were right"

  2. #2
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    Great women but also a bit of a loon considering how she seemed to think that there was no such thing as society just individuals.
    according to exarch I am like
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

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    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiljan Arslan View Post
    Great women but also a bit of a loon considering how she seemed to think that there was no such thing as society just individuals.
    The point she was making was that when things go bad, it's everyone for themselves

  4. #4
    DimeBagHo's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiljan Arslan View Post
    Great women but also a bit of a loon considering how she seemed to think that there was no such thing as society just individuals.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Super Pope
    The point she was making was that when things go bad, it's everyone for themselves
    The claim she was making is that society is no more than the sum of all the individuals who make it up. The political point which is supposed to follow is that society ought to be organised for the benefit of the individuals that make it up.

    Conversely it was a commonly held view amongst communists and fascists that individuals do not exist except as parts of the societies to which they belong. With the political point being that individuals should be formed (i.e. bred, and trained) for the benefit of society.

  5. #5
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    Yeah and that is kinda crazy. The US got itself out of the depression by uniting everyone.(Sorry but to me peolpe who say such things are bordering on being Randoids).
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

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    Arto's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    She was a iron-fisted lady, which was needed for Britain at that period.
    Knowledge is a deadly friend, if no one sets the rules. The fate of all mankind I see, is in the hands of fools - King Crimson's Epitaph.
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  7. #7
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    Not saying she wasn't needed, jsut asaying she's a bit crazy.

    That and her sermon on the mound.
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  8. #8
    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    through to the defeat of the Argentinians, she was probably the best Prime Minister this country had throughout the 20th century.
    All she did was send in the troops, it was the troops that did the hard work. Also, the Argentinians invaded British soil, any Prime Minister would have sent in the troops.

    True, we are feeling the benefits of her changes to industry and economy now, but she left thousands of unemployed a the time.

    The majority of my family hate her, and I agree that she did damage the country in many ways. But she also benefited the country in many ways too....so I am kind neutral towards the whole issue.
    Under the Patronage of Jom!

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    One would not piss on her if she was on fire.... but would get some bread for toast.

  10. #10
    Captain Blackadder's Avatar A bastion of sanity
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    She got rid of the milk . The Poll tax was a unbelievably stupid idea politically and the wholesaling of British government companies seems silly to me but I do understand how righties like it.
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  11. #11
    Freddie's Avatar The Voice of Reason
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Blackadder View Post
    She got rid of the milk . The Poll tax was a unbelievably stupid idea politically and the wholesaling of British government companies seems silly to me but I do understand how righties like it.
    It was either scraping Milk or introducing charges to take out library books. Had Wilson not bottled it and had made the economic decisions he had promised earlier in his manifesto Heath's government may not have had to make the dramatic cuts in spending that it did.

  12. #12
    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    heh, warmongering? the woman was gonna destroy the RN and armed forces. it was damn lucky the argentines decided to invade, its a shame labour havent learned from that lesson.

    Cant give her the honour of being responsible for starting the rot that this country's been living in, because it basically started in 1956 heh....but hey, i dont rate any government beyond Churchill's war cabinet for our side of the 20th century.

  13. #13
    Osceola's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    I can't stand her no. Arrogant, ugly .
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  14. #14

    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    Saved Country.......hilarious. You think we might have fallen apart?

    I doubt it.

    Thatcher did some good things:
    freshened up the service sector
    cut direct taxes
    some of the privatisations
    curtailed the worst aspects of the trades union movement but went too far

    Bad things:
    Mass unemployment through blind monetarist policies - huge recession, far worse then mainland Europe.
    Undervalued privatisations and too many privatisations - a direct result is our parlous energy sector at the present.
    Poll Tax - disaster
    Greatly increased the burden of taxation on the poorest
    Poorly thought through de-reg of financial sector = unsustainable personal credit boom and also Black Wednesday
    her Govt lost control of the econ in 88-89 but was unwilling to intervene = 3 year recession '90 to '93

    Any British PM would have sent a Task Force to the Falklands - even Michael Foot supported the move.

    It is worth bearing in mind that both Germany and Holland went through a similar process but more successfully and with less bile and hatred.

    Give her 6/10, more then Major and Heath and Wilson. Less then Blair or Attlee. Defo less then Winston!
    The Devshirme
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    Incontinenta Buttox's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharrow View Post
    It is worth bearing in mind that both Germany and Holland went through a similar process but more successfully and with less bile and hatred.
    Ironic comment really. Because as usual all the bile and hatred is coming from the leftists. Thats all being left-wing is about really isn't it.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    The nice thing about democracy. You get the opportunity to elect the leaders you need and to dump them when times and circumstances change. Maggie was needed, but she had also made some mistakes. At some point, a change in leadership was necessary -- according to the electorate. Only problem with democracy, no guarantees that you will elect what is needed. So we should never frown on good fortune.

  17. #17

    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    "So we should never frown on good fortune"

    The one positive impact of the poll tax was her exit. So you are quite right.
    The Devshirme
    On the night the scarlet horsemen took him away - from all that he knew and all he might have known - the moon waxed full in Scorpio, sign of his birth, and as if by the hand of God its incandescence split the alpine valley sheer into that which was dark and that which was light, and the light lit the path of devils to his door.

  18. #18
    Incontinenta Buttox's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    It always amazes me how many leftists have selective memories and seem to remember 1979 and the winter of discontent as some sort of workers paradise. Socialism failed. Time to move on ladies.

    Britain was in a much better state when she left office in 1991 than when she took over in 1979. End of story.

  19. #19

    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    Why Sir, with that sense of humour ah declare ah am swooning............!

    Am a centrist, not a lefty.

    Thatch did some good, some bad and left an awful mess in many parts of the Country.

    Was it in a better state? In 1990 we were entering a massive recession, in 1979 She exacerbated a recession and the result was mass unemployment on both occasions.

    I appreciate the attention to small businesses and entrepreneurship, less so the wholesale destruction of working class communities, market town economies and the contributions these made to the serious social problems in this country, legacies we are still dealing with.

    I posted this elsewhere:

    I actually said 'de-industrialisation' but your points are well made. The Thatcher Govts, whilst trying to combat inflation and re-vitalise the economy - all laudable enough - also had the side political project of fragmenting tradtional working class communities and thus neuter a traditional source of political opposition.

    Misplaced corporatism in the 70's resulted in too large a nationalised sector but, equally, blunt monetarism and a politicalo haterd of working class Britain in the 1980's destroyed much of British Industry in the midlands and, particularly, the North. There was precious little done to help those communities, I know, I grew up in one at the time. Mine was a mining area and we went from zero unemployment and few social problems to unemployment of 20 - 30% and a whole host of attendant social ills - family breakdown, hard drug use and alcoholism.

    Some de-industrialisation was inevitable but Thatcher made it worse then in comparable European countries, for instance - that was the Rightists, (as opposed to traditional One Nation Tories - who did have a conscience) who took over the Tory Party in the mid 70's, political project when in power.

    Gee thanks Mrs T. .

    A moderate centre right or even centre left Govt would have liberalised the economy and toned down the Unions - the Dutch managed it - but, no, in Britain we had Mrs T et al. Great.
    And this:

    We reap what we sow in life. Now Britain has to contend with the dark sides of the two major political projects of the 20th Century

    1. The Post War Welfare State - this has had many positive impacts (before it my Grandad often had to choose between the Doctor and food on the table for instance) BUT it has also a dark side - a dependancy underclass.

    2. Thatcherism - the 'no body owes no one a ing thing apart from monetary exchange' culture attacked family life, the cohesion of communities and working class pride.

    The result - chavs and gangs. Result....not.

    I honestly don't think that either ardant socialists or rightists have particularly much to be proud about with respect to either.
    The Devshirme
    On the night the scarlet horsemen took him away - from all that he knew and all he might have known - the moon waxed full in Scorpio, sign of his birth, and as if by the hand of God its incandescence split the alpine valley sheer into that which was dark and that which was light, and the light lit the path of devils to his door.

  20. #20
    magpie's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: The Iron Lady

    I was kind of hoping that I would not see that name in print again. A good old fashioned erasure from history would be nice. regards magpie.

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