Can't keep up the economy ...

[King3x]

I recently installed your mod after recently reinstalling M2TW and I have to say I love the concept. However, it seems like no matter who I play, I can't keep up my economy and face off against the massive stacks that the AI makes (which astounds me on how they have the money).

Any tips?

[Bull]

Do you mean you are having trouble paying for an army? Or just that you have less stacks than the AI?

Money is generally abundant in BC. Cities like Rayy, Damascus, Kahira, or Samarqand produces 3000-6000. The most I've seen is my newly conquered Bagdhad which yields more than 8000. Also if you use you merchants wisely you will get at least 500 per mechant per turn (distance to your capital is the key, I always send my merchants to Makuria for gold and ivory, and to India for gold and silver. Wood is also quite valuable)

The AI will almost always have more stacks than you, because they recruit levies and militias who runs away at the first sight of heavy cavalry. Surely those armies are not troubling you.

[King3x]

I just recently "finished" a game with Jerusalem and I pretty much got cornered and overran by the Ayyubid. They took Tyre but I couldn't get crusade support because I had no money to get crusades.

[Faris ad Din]

I just recently "finished" a game with Jerusalem and I pretty much got cornered and overran by the Ayyubid. They took Tyre but I couldn't get crusade support because I had no money to get crusades.

Okay, hear the following tips:

1. Armies are your #1 expense. Disband, disband, disband, and lower taxes. It's more cost effective - taxes in BC have lower yield than in vanilla anyway.

2. Merchants. They are economic powerhouses in BC - keep building grain exchanges in every single large town you have and pump them out. Acquire other merchants pronto. Send an assassin or two to harass threatening merchant powers.

3. You don't need to spend everything on expensive units - higher tier units in BC are less cost effective, this is a known fact. Higher prices AND smaller unit sizes and harder to replace - they're just eye candy. Rely on medium tier units for the heavy lifting - for KoJ, Armored Sergeant Spearmen are hands-down a coup - available from wooden castles and large cities (like Jerusalem) if you build the barracks.

4. Seize as much rebel territory as fast as possible. It'll pay for itself. Watch enemies' maneuvering at the same time.

5. To save a buck, manually command battles (unless the odds are ridiculously in your favor). Human commanders are usually much better than the AI factor - fewer units lost mean fewer units that have to be fielded or retrained - fewer units fielded means LOWER UPKEEP, and fewer units retrained means lower recruitment bills. The human player is an oft-forgotten money-saver.
For that matter, learn your strategy. For example, KoJ employs a very good A) spear defensive line, B) crossbows for light ranged support (like protecting spearmen/knights from horse archers), and C) powerful charge knights. Protect your knights... it's what happened historically.

6. Bodyguards. They kill. Protect the family member himself though, if he dies, the bodyguards disappear after the battle. If he dies even with your efforts, sacrifice those bodyguards in combat as they're going away anyway.

7. Any moment you do not spend expanding and building and becoming stronger is a moment the AI becomes stronger. And build alliances, they're worth it in BC. Same religion works.

KoJ is not a civ builder. They are crusaders that are sworn to put moslems to christianity or sand.

Eigther you fight or you die.

This was

1. UNHELPFUL

2. POINTLESS

3. OFFENSIVE

Thank you.

[Bull]

Yeah, that's foreseable if you don't rush in the beginning.
As KoJ my first move is usually to take Gaza, Homs, and Damascus, and the little town south of Kerak. You need to leave Damascus to last because of the nasty garrison's script.

Don't build anything in the beginning, pump all the money into sergeant spearmen and besiege!! AND sack!! That will keep you financed until you push the Ayyubids out of Levant. Then it's an even fight.

You can "cheat" a little bit by autoresolving the sieges, so that you don't take much loss as long as you have numerical superiority.

[anaztazioch]

KoJ is not a civ builder. They are crusaders that are sworn to put moslems to christianity or sand.
Eigther you fight or you die.

[gadajs]

KoJ is not a civ builder. They are crusaders that are sworn to put moslems to christianity or sand.
Eigther you fight or you die.

And wrong. You can do perfectly well with the KoJ without fighting. If you ally with the Ayyubids and Armenians (and they ALWAYS agree) you can get yourself a monstrous economy by capturing the 2 rebel provinces in Syria as well as Antioch and Cyprus. Your starting stack will be decimated by then, so the money will start coming in (especially if you used and lost the 2 units of Guards of Jerusalem).

I tried this completely peaceful approach the last game I had with the KoJ, and made enough money to buy Damascus, Homs, Damyut, Alexandria and Gaza from the Ayyubids, as well as Adana and Tarsus from the Armenians. Most of these purchases were in the region of 50k to 150k. I cannot understand people who claim their economies do not work. If you are losing money, then your armies are too large, disband them or use them against rebel cities.

[Bull]

And wrong. You can do perfectly well with the KoJ without fighting. If you ally with the Ayyubids and Armenians (and they ALWAYS agree) you can get yourself a monstrous economy by capturing the 2 rebel provinces in Syria as well as Antioch and Cyprus. Your starting stack will be decimated by then, so the money will start coming in (especially if you used and lost the 2 units of Guards of Jerusalem).

I tried this completely peaceful approach the last game I had with the KoJ, and made enough money to buy Damascus, Homs, Damyut, Alexandria and Gaza from the Ayyubids, as well as Adana and Tarsus from the Armenians. Most of these purchases were in the region of 50k to 150k. I cannot understand people who claim their economies do not work. If you are losing money, then your armies are too large, disband them or use them against rebel cities.

True, but why be a business man and let the other factions have all the fun?? This is Total War!!

[Faris ad Din]

True, but why be a business man and let the other factions have all the fun?? This is Total War!!

Exactly. Gadajs was just trying a different peaceful approach for once - and it worked! We can be certain he tried every other approach in different experimental campaigns. If it is Total War then

"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."

- Hasan-i-Sabah, leader of the Nizari Assassins

[gadajs]

Exactly. Gadajs was just trying a different peaceful approach for once - and it worked! We can be certain he tried every other approach in different experimental campaigns. If it is Total War then

"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."

- Hasan-i-Sabah, leader of the Nizari Assassins

Exactly, I decided I wanted to see how far I could go witout getting into any wars, and it really is no problem to win the game without getting into war. Once you reach arounf 150k florins in the bank, you basically hit the 'economic' critical mass, which means that you make enough to buy a territory, move an army into it and start stabilizing it, and once the new territory is stabilized, you have another 150k in the bank already to buy a new territory. It is the tactic i generally enjoy using with armies that gain their best units late, or that make huge amounts of cash early on, such as the Abbasids, and it makes a genuinely refreshing change from the usual 15 HA stacks winning 12 Heroic victories to defeat the romans kind of game.

Playing like this you get to play kingmaker, for instance in one game as the abbasids I funded the seljuk war vs the Shah by buying all their provinces (starting from Azerbaijan and moving eastwards as their capital moved) until they had moved completely into khwarzhem lands. They did this despite almost never having more than 4 territories, because i was pumping them with about 100k every 4 or 5 turns to buy a city or so. I then began buying provinces to the west, buying jazira off the Armenians and moving slowly into the holy land, pacifying the 3 way war which was going on by turning the land Abbasid black, all without any blood being spilt. Not the kind of game everyone wants to play, but I prefer a slow game, and I definately prefer teching up to at least fortress level units before getting involved in wars..... I just prefer the units I guess.

[Zymran]

I find I often have more trouble with the economy as KoJ than as other factions in BC, at least in the beginning. I find it's best to build up slowly, concentrating on one of two major settlements while keeping as large an army as possible while still profiting. Provoke a war with the Ayyubids and fight defensively and you can drain their resources until you're on more equal terms - KoJ can easily win in defensive battles thanks to its spear and knights, like Faris ad Din said Then you can go on the offensive (personally I'd take Damascus first to secure the rear so you can put all your efforts and troops in the south.
KoJ play differently to most other factions in BC, I reckon. You can't really expand that much before you have to fight another faction, and money's much tighter than for anyone else.

[The Cobra]

fight defensively and you can drain their resources until you're on more equal terms .

I don't think this will work in any mod due to the money script, you should take it to their homeland, if your captured their main cities they will be then crippled, their armies weakened and their economy in ashes.

If a man does not strike first, he will be the first struck

[karo]

The economy in BC is very simple, you gain more money than you need and if you spend it wisely you'll be fine. When in war don't build and when you're not at war builth like crazy economical buildings. And you'll be fine.

If you want a real chalange play Eb. lol

[The Cobra]

I can't keep up my economy and face off against the massive stacks that the AI makes (which astounds me on how they have the money.

He conquers who endures.
Necessity knows no law except to conquer.
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.
The sinews of war are infinite money.
We should provide in peace what we need in war.

[the_mango55]

If you don't want to go to war with the Abbuyids (although personally I would try to at least take their lands to the east, then try to get a peace) then you can go north and carve out a nice little empire from rebel settlements. Antioch also makes a ton of money when you get some ports and economic buildings installed.

A general tip for the KoJ armies, once you can build Latin crossbowmen, replace all your Sergeant Swordsmen with them.

Yes, you heard me, the swordsmen. Keep the lower tier crossbowmen and archers as your ranged branch, but put these crossbows in as your sword infantry. They are just as good at melee as the swordsmen (same attack and defense IIRC), are great crossbowmen so they can cause scores of casualties before the melee, and have less upkeep cost than the swordsmen!

[King3x]

I will try to allie with Jeruesalem next time I play them.

I just had a sick game with the Abassids and carved a nice little empire spanning from the lengths of Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Kuwait, Oman, half of Saudi, and Iran (modern day). I was pumping like 200k a turn while in peace and could field about 6 full stacks in 2 turns.

Then I went to take on the Mongols, got decimated after my assassins failed. Like 10 turns later with half of my 9 stacks gone ( mercs), I was in debt quite a few thousand and Ayyubids and Georgians declared war. QQ.

[Otsman]

hit the key on your keyboard right below the Esc key in the middle of the game. medieval shell should pop up and then you can procede to enter

add_money 40000
enter
add_money 20000
enter
add_money 10000
enter

and your economy should be fine

its like taking your economy and putting it on steroids, and steroids are perfectly ok

[King3x]

I shan't ever cheat!

EDIT: I lied. During that Abbasid game I described, I got pissed of so I spawned about 3 stacks of Elephants and decimated the Mongols.