Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon interbreeding?

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapedo_child

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/96/13/7604

http://neurophilosophy.wordpress.com...ave-interbred/

Seems like an interesting hypothesis!

Also they are currently trying to map the Neanderthal genome, based on samples taken from fossil remains and deemed as sufficiently preserved for investigation:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13955661/

[Cluny the Scourge]

We had a thread on this subject not so long ago:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ht=neanderthal

My conclusions were that Neanderthal sex was a bestiality-fetish for perverted Cro-Magnons and that the genetic consequences continue today through ugly people who look like monkeys.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

We had a thread on this subject not so long ago:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ht=neanderthal

My conclusions were that Neanderthal sex was a bestiality-fetish for perverted Cro-Magnons and that the genetic consequences continue today through ugly people who look like monkeys.

Now, man, we know from where Sexual Perversion comes from. It seems the Original Sin hypothesis can be discarded .

[CtrlAltDe1337]

You do realize that "Neanderthal man" was an old man with rickets, right?

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

You do realize that "Neanderthal man" was an old man with rickets, right?

Only in Creationist myth.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Only in Creationist myth.

Is that a dodge? This has nothing to do with creationism. the "Neanderthals" never existed. Thats a fact. The skeleton we have is that of an old man. Any honest scientist will admit this.

[Blau&Gruen]

We have quite a lot skeletons, skeleton parts, possibly even DNA remains. There are eventually remains of their "cultural" activity, too. We can know quite a lot about Homo sapiens neanderthaliensis. There is more than one old neanderthal men. The PNAS article shows however how difficult it is to interpret a finding assemblage. Do the remains of this 4-year old girl give a base to assume that there were relations between neanderthals and early modern men and if yes, what would this mean for the question of the place of neanderhals in the taxonomy of the hominides?

[Dayman]

Is that a dodge? This has nothing to do with creationism. the "Neanderthals" never existed. Thats a fact. The skeleton we have is that of an old man. Any honest scientist will admit this.

We have more than one skeleton chief.

Have you been communicating with Kent Hovind while he serves his time?

[Dayman]

You do realize that "Neanderthal man" was an old man with rickets, right?

I could say something but Voltaire summed it up succinctly.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

I could say something but Voltaire summed it up succinctly.

I will complete that with: "You do realize Genesis was just an old Hebrew legend?".

It seems the topic itself is dry. I'll try searching in more Science-oriented forums for my response, and I thought omniscient Simetrical would always give a response to all our doubts. Maybe he will soon, who knows?

[christof139]

I saw that on TV. Chris

[Dayman]

Maybe he will soon, who knows?

It's the Sabbath!

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

It's the Sabbath!

Oh no, thanks me for reminding me of that.

At least he knows how to temper his religious side with a bit of rational perspective, or else he would be just an ordinary member now.

[Blau&Gruen]

Your PNAS article is interesting. A difficulty is that you need knowledge in paleo-anthropology to test the proposals. The argumentation looks good but has the evidence been adequately interpreted? It is hard to say. They are the remains of one individual. That is not a very broad base for the authors conclusions. On the other hand paleo-anthropologists are probably lucky in this case as they have the remains in the original finding spot with artefacts together.

[Exarch]

perhaps a more pressing q. today is, are there still neanderthals among us today?
i am not asking for joke responses.
i'd like a seriosu answer

[Blau&Gruen]

No, they disappeared as a distinct species at least.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Blau&Gruen,

That's exactly the question I was trying to discuss. For now it's just a hypothesis, and with the Neanderthal genome project there has been some progress in determining also their contribution to the modern human species. Needless to say it is a great find.

Crucifix,

You're diving right into Creationist myth. There's far more than just one fossil of Neanderthal in the world and when the original find has been long since concluded, it was far more than just an "old man".

Please go read some basic paleonthology work, if you actually like something more than the lies spread by the Discovery Institute.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Crucifix,

You're diving right into Creationist myth. There's far more than just one fossil of Neanderthal in the world and when the original find has been long since concluded, it was far more than just an "old man".

Please go read some basic paleonthology work, if you actually like something more than the lies spread by the Discovery Institute.

First off, I have said nothing about Creationism. You are taking this off topic; make a thread in the EMM if you want to talk religion. And I mention the one since it is the best specimen that has been found.

Secondly, yes the old man was more than an old man, he had *gasp* rickets! Read: he was deformed! The other parts we have are fragments from similar cases, humans, or animals. You can speculate all you want about this hypothetical species (and have fun at it), but I apologize if I do not choose to believe fairy tales.

[boofhead]

An interesting idea, Crucifix. I've never heard of it before.....but I did some googling and found this site which seems to effectively refute it

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/a_neands.html

It is interesting though that Neanderthals seem to have up to 99.9% of human DNA......:hmmm:

[CtrlAltDe1337]

An interesting idea, Crucifix. I've never heard of it before.....but I did some googling and found this site which seems to effectively refute it

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/a_neands.html

It is interesting though that Neanderthals seem to have up to 99.9% of human DNA......:hmmm:

Interesting article, and I would have to do more research to be 100% certain about anything of course, but I think that most of his "refutations" could be refuted with an equally biased perspective and facts from the opposite side. Most of it is his opinion pressed onto the facts.

Sorry man but you provide no sources and come to the erroneous conclusion that it was all made up with bones of different fossils. You also contradict more than a hundred years of research on the subject that is accepted by the mainstream scientific community. May I tell you something?

I see no sources from you either . I don't come here to to hard-core scientific debate, otherwise I would be quoting scientists left and right. Sorry if I dissapoint. And I never said it was made up of bones of different fossils. As far as I am aware (correct me if I'm wrong) but I only know of the one full (or mostly?) skeleton. The others are just bits and pieces--some skeleton parts here and there--from other sites. Am I mistaken or not? But it makes no difference really. I mentioned the one since its the one everyone knows about.

When claiming fossils are you saying numerous complete skeletons? Although more than one I would confidently say that there arent many complete skeletons.

Genetically a difference? Right now that is inconclusive. 99.9 percent is well within the overall genetic differences of all races of humans right now.

Physically different? Well it all depends.

I have seen many different kinds of people and there is quite a lot of variation. I would say if a Neandertal came into a library in plain clothes and clean shaven and sat down to read a book I would not be astounded by his appearance. I would just think he looks like a rather large big boned ugly man. (plenty of em around the world).

I remember going through basic training with a giant Somoan and he looked like the freakiest human I had ever seen. Had a real bad temper too. If I saw a Neandertal stand next to him I would think the Neandertal to be the modern human over the Somoan.

Exactly. Due to diseases & deformities, people look quite strange even in today's time.

I just checked up on the child of Lagar Velho. There is solid empirecal evidence that it has both modern human and Neandertal traits. This clearly suggest a kinship between the two "breeds"

Or maybe it was just a less-deformed person than the other skeletons?