Puerto Rico

[Emperor Taizu]

Do you think that Puerto Rico should be the 51st state of America? Sen. Clinton said in public that if she became president she would give Puerto Rico the privilege of voting in the general elections in the future. You know what that means? Puerto Rico has to be a state to vote for president. I would totally support this idea. Puerto Rico has about 4 million people and has been under US control for quite a long time. Vote in the poll and discuss.

[Farnan]

Other, let us see what the next referendum brings and then go from there.

[Emperor Taizu]

Other, let us see what the next referendum brings and then go from there.

But, do you think it's a nice idea?

[Dayman]

I know all the Puerto Ricans here who aren't "residents" of the US would like to not pay income tax.

[Emperor Taizu]

I know all the Puerto Ricans here who aren't "residents" of the US would like to not pay income tax.

Puerto Rico is under US control, but has been LARGELY ignored mainly for the fact that it's just a "colony".

[Dayman]

Puerto Rico is under US control, but has been LARGELY ignored mainly for the fact that it's just a "colony".

It's not a colony, it's a territory.

When I mean here I mean in my neighborhood, I live in a Puerto Rican one and a lot of them aren't living here as residents to avoid paying income tax.

[antaeus]

It's not a colony, it's a territory.

When I mean here I mean in my neighborhood, I live in a Puerto Rican one and a lot of them aren't living here as residents to avoid paying income tax.

whats the difference other than a name?

edit: never mind. i looked up puerto rico.

i believe the correct term is a commonwealth with a self elected governor.

[Trey]

Puerto Rico is under US control, but has been LARGELY ignored mainly for the fact that it's just a "colony".

I think you don't understand Puerto Rico's status.

They enjoy all of the privileges of American citizens but the right to vote in Federal elections; however they are free from federal income taxes. That is something I would gladly trade for.

In addition, they can choose to move any time to any state and then partake in federal elections, as long as they are a resident.

And this has been put to vote many times: Time after time Puerto Ricans have voted to retain this status with runner up voting to become a state. A negligible percentage vote for independence.

[Pontifex Maximus]

From what I can gather, I don't think they want to be a state. If they were to want to become one, I say yes, but I can't decide for them.

...and Puerto Rice isn't really a colony.

[Confederate Jeb]

Puerto Rico is better off as it is right now. I don't see why they would want to become a state.

EDIT: Dang it! Someone always beats me to the punch.

[ajm317]

Puerto Rico has held referenda on 4 occasions on the issue of statehood/independence/status quo. Every time they decide they want the status quo. What are we supposed to do, force statehood on them? They just don't want it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic...of_Puerto_Rico

[Fabolous]

Puerto Rico has held referenda on 4 occasions on the issue of statehood/independence/status quo. Every time they decide they want the status quo. What are we supposed to do, force statehood on them? They just don't want it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic...of_Puerto_Rico

But the votes have been very close of late. If they moved to wanting statehood, I would completely support it, if they remain as they are, I am against it. I am and probably will remain against independence since the Puerto Ricans are heavily against it. If the people of Puerto Rico decided they wished to move towards statehood, I would then support it. I believe strongly in self-determination.

[ajm317]

But the votes have been very close of late. If they moved to wanting statehood, I would completely support it, if they remain as they are, I am against it. I am and probably will remain against independence since the Puerto Ricans are heavily against it. If the people of Puerto Rico decided they wished to move towards statehood, I would then support it. I believe strongly in self-determination.

If Puerto Rico wants to be a state, they should be a state. I would be very disapointed if Congress didn't admit them.

But so far all the referenda have failed. Maybe it's time for another one, it has been 10 years.

Half want statehood, the other half seem to cling to the colonolial status because of fear, both of being independent and losing our culture, despite knowing that the system doesn't work.

Why are Puerto Ricans concerned that statehood would lead to them losing their culture?

[JNS]

Why are Puerto Ricans concerned that statehood would lead to them losing their culture?

It's mostly fear, not really base on anything realistic. I personally don't think this will happen because

-To make a change as drastic as completely replacing a culture that is 500 years old you would need a massive imigration of americans here to make any impact. That or try to force it, but your goverment already tried that (from 1900-1952) and it didn't work.
-any statehood attempt has to include spanish as an official languaje (at the state level) as an alternative to english

How can you guys handle independence if you guys can't even organize to do it?

If you want independence, do it. If you want statehood, do it.

Take some responsibility down there and just do it. The balls in your court.

We don't want independence, the independece movement died during the 60's. Statehood is very posible but we would need an overwhelming majority, and we are 50/50 on that right now

[Farnan]

-any statehood attempt has to include spanish as an official languaje (at the state level) as an alternative to english

New Mexico, and I think Florida and Arizona already have this. Louisiana and Maine have French as an official language, and Hawaii has Hawaiian

[Farnan]

In a colony we are trying to replace the native rulers with rulers from the home country. We aren't doing that, and never really did. In a territory we control it but the native leadership is in charge.

[antaeus]

In a colony we are trying to replace the native rulers with rulers from the home country. We aren't doing that, and never really did. In a territory we control it but the native leadership is in charge.

look at my edit above

but puerto rico was a colony in all senses including its name until 1947...

i'm just curious as to the status of the quasi territories of the united states... as they sometimes appear quite at odds with what happens to other former colonies... but then they are also run a lot better than other former colonies by their parent too.

[Erik]

In a colony we are trying to replace the native rulers with rulers from the home country. We aren't doing that, and never really did. In a territory we control it but the native leadership is in charge.

What's the difference between controlling something and being in charge?

Anyways, I think the US should provide Puerto Ricans with several options, including keeping things as they are and full independence.
But the final choice should always be up to the Puerto Ricans.

PS: Am I the only one who thinks Clinton wanted to give them power to vote in general elections just to increase her own chances of getting re-elected?
Or am I wrong in believing Puerto Ricans would mostly be Democrats/Clinton supporters like the Mexican immigrants?

[JNS]

What's the difference between controlling something and being in charge?

Anyways, I think the US should provide Puerto Ricans with several options, including keeping things as they are and full independence.
But the final choice should always be up to the Puerto Ricans.

PS: Am I the only one who thinks Clinton wanted to give them power to vote in general elections just to increase her own chances of getting re-elected?
Or am I wrong in believing Puerto Ricans would mostly be Democrats/Clinton supporters like the Mexican immigrants?

Although i don't have any stats to back you up i know that the PPD (the pro-commonwealth party) is mostly Democrat while the PNP is traditionally republican with a big democrat minority. So i think your asumption is fair.

Mostly though hillary's victory here is mostly attributed to the clinton's succesful campaign here (obama barely showed up) and the fact that they already had a strong relationship with a lot of leaders in the island. Obama also was hurt by being backed by the governor, who is massively unpopular right now.

[Farnan]

What's the difference between controlling something and being in charge?

Anyways, I think the US should provide Puerto Ricans with several options, including keeping things as they are and full independence.
But the final choice should always be up to the Puerto Ricans.

They are given pretty much 3 options each referendum (I think they are due for a new one soon)

Keep things as they are (gets around 53% of the vote I think)
Become a state (gets around 45% of the vote I think)
Independence (gets around 2% of the vote I think)

The difference is thus:

Puerto Rico is part of the US but has a huge degree of autonomy. They are subject to Federal Law and don't have their own foreign policy, but otherwise they pretty much do what they want. This is why the independence movement is so weak, leaving the US will gain them very little but lose US protection.

Actually the Northern Mariana Islands, one of our 5 inhabited territories, actually voluntarily voted to become a territory. That is how brutal colonisers we are, people actually want to join us.