Area of recruitment , and how minorities populate settlements XD

[whitewolfmxc]

As topic , i want this thread to talk about what kind of units are area recruitable only , now you guys help me here XD


As for the second half of the topic , i want to discuss how elves and dwarves are able to recruit , as in the books and movies portrait they are dieing races

What i have in mind for them :


A) dwarves and elves can recruit their original roaster units in settlements with resource (elves culture / dwarve culture) , without these preset resources they cant recruit original roaster units.


B) additional Area only units added , units like guards of Kazar dum for dwarves when they have moria back etc


C) But when these two factions (actually 3 as theres two elves faction) capture a non dwarve / elves settlement :

1) If its a "good faction settlement" , lets say they took a gondor city , they will have to "build their own culture to re populate the area , so auxiliary buildings need to be build to assimilate the "re population movement" , so multiple buildings needs to be built before the dwarves can recruit thier original roasters in these settlements. But since most of these settlements wont have mines (dwarves not likely to move there) , so the roaster only stays with low and mid ters units



For elves they will have some kind of levy unit , i was thinking a sub race where like the book says the elves that choice to be mortal when they are descendants between elve and men , although there are only a few of these cases in the book , but at least its LORE and it shows there is such possibility

So these "half elves" (need to come up with a better name XD help me guys) , are less powerful than their original ancestors as they cant live forever and collect thier EXP XD but they will have a lower upkeep and buying price then normal evles unit

2) If its a orchish / evil settlement , elves cant recruit anything while dwarves will have mercenaries

for dwarves , mercenaries such as dale mercs and blah blahblah XD you guys fill in the gaps for me , but Iron guards should be build able there http://oz.games-workshop.com/storefr...016&orignav=16

SO in these evil settlements these two races can not repopulate because of the evil origin (elves and dwarves really hate orchish stuff) and thus they can only recruit in such a manner i mention

(also since these settlements wont let you build too much cultural buildings , the decent rate for it should be high , forcing the player to garassion more in these kind of settlements)


D) Also when these two culture capture a evil based settlement , an event will pop up the next turn saying they killed all the original population (orcs etc) and the effect show in game where the population is down to the minimum (using the plague feature)




So how about other factions ? any specific you guys have in mind ?

What i have is :

1) For All human based factions , when they take a dwarves or elve settlement , they get maybe one or two "mercs " from them , for dwarves its easier as you can always bribe them to work , but for elve i was thinking an slave like unit >< they will be forced to fight

2) All orchist based factions can recruit in any settlement (they can easily repopulate) unless its a elves one , they will not be able toe recruit there (too holy LOL)

3) Gondor and Rohan when at war and take each others settlements , they can have crossed units , when gondor take rohans land they can have some auxiliary rohan calvary, for roahn taking gondor city , they can have more armored infantry

4) Same for all orchish based factions ,when they take other orchish cities , if theres a building from that original faction (such as armory , where orcs of misty moutian will lack) , they get new units . example when Isanguard takes on lands that has troll resoruce (will be either mordor or Misty moutains) , they get armored trolls

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...Id=prod1080092

another example is when mordor gets isengards setltments they cna have uraks

[Varjon]

Dwarves should be able to recruit only from settlemnts which are on mountains. And silvan elves only from deep woods. High Elves should be able to recruit from cities which are in west coastal of Eriador and also from those cities which are side by side to Rivendell and Grey Havens. And of course from Eregion.

[Iustinianos]

For elves they will have some kind of levy unit , i was thinking a sub race where like the book says the elves that choice to be mortal when they are descendants between elve and men , although there are only a few of these cases in the book , but at least its LORE and it shows there is such possibility

So these "half elves" (need to come up with a better name XD help me guys) , are less powerful than their original ancestors as they cant live forever and collect thier EXP XD but they will have a lower upkeep and buying price then normal evles unit

I think that you could better use something like Dark Elves/Wood Elves. Lower and weaker basic elves then the Noldor/Sindar. As for the half-elve-race, it's true that this happened but I don't think it would happen that often nor that they where much weaker. Remember Eärendil and Elros where half-elves, they where quite strong figures in Middle-Earths history, even compared to elves. So I think you may better use these basic elves who travel trough the lands and live in woods, but not with the Noldor/Sindar community.

1) For All human based factions , when they take a dwarves or elve settlement , they get maybe one or two "mercs " from them , for dwarves its easier as you can always bribe them to work , but for elve i was thinking an slave like unit >< they will be forced to fight

Okay, I suggest that these slave-units can be the lower class of Elves. The wood-elves. I don't imagine that the Noldor would easily be ''persuaded'' to join the enemy's side whereas the lower Elves might do that.


3) Gondor and Rohan when at war and take each others settlements , they can have crossed units , when gondor take rohans land they can have some auxiliary rohan calvary, for roahn taking gondor city , they can have more armored infantry

4) Same for all orchish based factions ,when they take other orchish cities , if theres a building from that original faction (such as armory , where orcs of misty moutian will lack) , they get new units . example when Isanguard takes on lands that has troll resoruce (will be either mordor or Misty moutains) , they get armored trolls

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...Id=prod1080092

another example is when mordor gets isengards setltments they cna have uraks

Okay. Nice ideas, I'd say the Orcs need some sort of a pit or something(like in BFME) where they can produce Orcs, just as in the films as well. I think that Mordor should already be able to recruit Uruks since Sauron also used them in Mordor. However I do think that when Mordor gets Isengard they should be able to recruit the Isengard kind of Uruks which where taller and better armoured.

[Varjon]

I have to disagree with this that if you for an example as Rohan occupy Lórien, you would get elven units to Rohan. That's way too absurd. And same thing to dwarves. I can't imagine dwarf or elf as servant of human king.

And that half elf mercenary idea doesn't really work. Marriage between elf and man happened very few times. There has been maybe few dozens of these marriages during the whole history of Middle-Earth. And I don't believe that even so many.

[Iustinianos]

I have to disagree with this that if you for an example as Rohan occupy Lórien, you would get elven units to Rohan. That's way too absurd. And same thing to dwarves. I can't imagine dwarf or elf as servant of human king.

I'd say you'll have to wait some turns before you are able to recruit Elves/Dwarves. That should give time to let you Elven population travel to these new conquered cities. Sort of the same as it is now in MTW2. When the Noldor for example capture Edoras then they have to wait like 4/5 turns, after that time there should be enough Elves to recruit 1 or 2 units. But not much though and it will take time to recruit more since the Elves should 'travel' from your other Elven settlements.

And that half elf mercenary idea doesn't really work. Marriage between elf and man happened very few times. There has been maybe few dozens of these marriages during the whole history of Middle-Earth. And I don't believe that even so many.

Excactly my idea as well.

[whitewolfmxc]

I have to disagree with this that if you for an example as Rohan occupy Lórien, you would get elven units to Rohan. That's way too absurd. And same thing to dwarves. I can't imagine dwarf or elf as servant of human king.

And that half elf mercenary idea doesn't really work. Marriage between elf and man happened very few times. There has been maybe few dozens of these marriages during the whole history of Middle-Earth. And I don't believe that even so many.

You forgot the line i wrote XD "slave unit" , i think if thier families and friends are hold captive at home , at least Some of the elves are willing to be a servant , at least the wood elves and the not noble ones lol

Yeah thats what i said LOL but isnt the game is "what if" , in LOTR elves never attacked human kingdoms , but my suggestions that is IF they do and take land form them , wouldnt it be VERY possible that the two races will mix ??? so this is just a what if situation XD

and you can always make it more reasonable , like make them refill once per 5 turns ? 5 turns for just one unit is very slow indeed , it can simulate the slow process for these elves to show up ? XD

[Varjon]

No, no, no... I mean that haven't happened ever in history of Middle Earth. Any elf or dwarf haven't been part of any human kingdom. They have fought side by side many times but any dwarf or elf wouldn't fight under lead of human. And if for an example Rohan conquers Lórien I bet that elves would've moved to other elven kingdoms or they would have moved over the sea.

[Iustinianos]

No, that's not what I mean. I mean that when you are playing as for example Rohan, and you conquer Lorien. Then you obviously can't recruit Elves or Dwarves, and no Rohirrim either since there wouldn't be any Rohirrim in there. Therefore you have to wait some turns until there are enough Rohirrim in Lorien. I think it can be quite realistic to see people from Rohan move to newly conquered cities and thus increasing the population there as well as the availability of Rohan soldiers. So after a couple turns Rohan can recruit some Rohirrim units in Lories, but not Elves/Dwarves obviously. I agree that there has been no record of such an event.

I do think that you should be able to recruit like a peasant/low-class unit of Elves/Dwarves in such a settlement. I think it's realistic that there would be some Elves/Dwarves left after the city would be taken. These units should primarily be to keep order in those settlements, not for war. I mean, when Rohan captures Imladris they should not be able to recruit like Heavy Noldorian Noble Spearmen or something like that

[DeZzErX]

I do think that you should be able to recruit like a peasant/low-class unit of Elves/Dwarves in such a settlement. I think it's realistic that there would be some Elves/Dwarves left after the city would be taken. These units should primarily be to keep order in those settlements, not for war. I mean, when Rohan captures Imladris they should not be able to recruit like Heavy Noldorian Noble Spearmen or something like that

I agree .

[Varjon]

Oh, I see, sorry for misunderstanding you

But I still think that other races shouldn't be able to recruit any elves/dwarves

[whitewolfmxc]

well didnt i say they are low ter units ? LOL , and dwarves can work for the money

[Varjon]

Yes, work for money but, they wouldn't never fight in other factions troops or be part of another faction.

Expect if you can prove to me that there has been dwarven mercenaries...

[whitewolfmxc]

whats the difference in between fighting for someone not your bond to and being a mercenary ? didnt the dwarves fought with Sauron in second age ? so they fought because they loved him ? i beleive its the wealth they expected to be payed at , so doesnt that make them a mercenaries material ?

i didnt think adding a mercs unit will make them part of any kingdom , adding irish bowmen to the english roaster doesnt make irland part of england does it ? it only sounds like they were forced to work for them

PS: XD besides wasnt you guys who say this game is about "What if ?" XD

[whitewolfmxc]

AND GUYS ! you forgot one really cool feature kingdoms have gave us , religion / culture points BEFORE YOU can recruit some units , XD the priest (or what ever you name them afterwards , but id like calling them that fro now) can "convert " the culture (original such as elve) to the culture they were captured with , this makes more sense to recruit original roaster units in other areas yes ?

[Varjon]

Those dwarves were evil dwarves from the east and pretty much all dwarves who are in this game are Durin's Folk which haven't never been on evil's side or attacked against other free people.

No it's not very likely that elves would breed with men. In First Age men and elves lived side by side in very many places and they still didn't breed with each other. Unless of course if some men try to rape elven women, but those men probably would got killed in that case.

And by the way I haven't never agreed with this "what if" thing.

About that mercenary thing. You said that other races should be able to recruit dwarves/elves and now you tell me that they are mercs if you recruit them from your own settlement. This elven mercenary thing has been already discussed and there will not be elven mercs in this game. And probably not dwarves.

And it's totally different thing between working and going to war. Durin's Folk have made many building works for other people for money but they've never go war for money.

I think it worked well what they did in LotR:TW, only elves can recruit elves and only dwarves can recruit dwarves from certain areas.

[whitewolfmxc]

Then many will complain how impossible for them to expand when playing these 3 factions XD

So bottom line for me is there must be at least some low TER units (but exclusive in these non original areas) recruit able for dwarves and elves to expand when they capture a land that aren't theirs LOL

PS: complaints from looking at LOTR mods feedback by players , thats why i made this post in the first place XD

[Varjon]

Well of course you can expand and get income from other settlements too but you just can't recruit elves/dwarves from there.

[whitewolfmxc]

It will be way harder than you think , cause i assume elves and dwarves will have somewhat high price and upkeep in game to present their numbers, so first you cant have many around already

now lets say you start conquering to enemy areas , and you are already low on army , and every time someone attacks your city far away from your original land you cant replenish your troops , but instead you have to either bring in troops way too far or worst have to bring your tropps back and forth

the closer you are to enemy this needs gets more annoying and more demanding

Second the new settlement cant provide any upkeep cause if according to you idea , there isnt any troops able to be recruit able there , so the economy to hold the settlement is even greater than the upkeep if the settlement is near enemy


Third , how is it logical for a settlement lets say at least minimally populated with elves and dwarves (or else why take a settlement outside ?) cant even form the basic militia type troop ? the settlemnt should at least to "defend itself"

This is the situation where the players starts complaining its not possible to expand

[Varjon]

Well maybe it should be possible to recruit some basic militia of dwarves/elves but not any strong units.

[whitewolfmxc]

That was the main idea of my post XD