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  1. #1

    Default RoP's strategic balancing

    A lot of people lately have been asking about whether or not Persia expands as the AI or have suggested that some factions are too weak and need to be beefed up to contend with the rest. In the same vein we get a lot of suggestions about increasing unit variety.

    This isn't a post to say "how dare you tell us what to do!" Everyone at RoP loves it when the fanbase suggests new ideas or ways to improve the game. To be honest I hope you guys never stop. I'm just writing this post to describe pretty concisely why some of the suggestions didn't go through or why we decided against some of them.

    Firstly and fore-mostly in my mind is the idea of giving Persia advantages to make sure they become a giant empire. When we started out at RoP we really wanted to make a historical mod. One that accurately reflected the world of the age. To this end we really wanted to show exactly how remarkable the Rise of Persia was because it simply was a very hard task. The Persians had to deal with limited resources and fight extremely powerful empires to gain their success. If we gave them unique faction bonuses this would entirely detract from the accuracy of the mod. Moreover it would make playing as the Persians a little boring.

    The factions like Egypt and Makedon, which people often point out are considerably weaker than their neighbours, were designed specifically to be so. this is again part of RoP's vision of creating a realistic world. Egypt was fielding an army that was behind the times apart from their mercenaries and Makedon was just a fledgling state. To take these factions on you have to be ready for quite a struggle.

    lastly the requests for unit variation are mainly tied in with realism again but there are other factors. If a unit roster looks bare to you or the variety of their units is lacking. This wasn't a conscious decision by us to make that so. A lot of the time we are researching factions that barely have any information on them at all and as such we don't have a lot to work with. Sometimes research indicates that the military in question really was quite singular in their approach to warfare. As such the supposed lack of variety is entirely down to the lack of variety in the historical period. A great suggestion is to check out the eastern factions as they have far more exotic units than the western powers.

    However some of the other requests involve re-skins of the same model just to make the battlefield look a little nicer. This is a suggestion that doesn't really have any problems at all in itself. The only constraint is that graphics artists are pretty rare these days for RTW so whilst we have some we want to put them to work on creating new factions instead of going over old work. This way we can get a full version out and then begin to go back and tweak certain things.


    I hope this answered some questions out there. By all means keep pouring in the suggestions no matter what they might be. We just love to see people taking an interest

    - Rez

  2. #2
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    Default Re: RoP's strategic balancing

    Without doubt the RoP team made a great job, the atmosphere of the mod is amazing now.

    I only don't see the point, that playing Persia would become boring as player, if they get a few slight and sensible chosen extra-tweaks, but of course with the goal to increase the probability that the Persian AI can create the Persian empire ... this only would reflect more your described main goals to support the development of the world of this time, and would produce more historical immersion ... a slight easier gameplay with Persia as player is worth the AI affects imo. ... just my 2 cents.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: RoP's strategic balancing

    I would boost computer's Persia with money and population via the script - so that the player don't have too much advantage eiteher.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: RoP's strategic balancing

    Quote Originally Posted by Uranos View Post
    I would boost computer's Persia with money and population via the script - so that the player don't have too much advantage eiteher.

    I forgot that there is anyway a script in work, yes sure that is one tool!

    But a problem is sometimes, that the AI doesn't take enough advantage of a higher cashflow, and higher growth sometimes can also cause issues for the AI, if not supported by happiness and law boni (and certain traits and ancs).
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  5. #5

    Default Re: RoP's strategic balancing

    I was thinking recently that the changes needed to create the world that develops to allow Persia to become powerful wouldn't be too hard right?

    What we wanted to do in RoP was accurately create the world which you would be stepping into but there seems to be quite a large market for creating the world that would develop as well. Since the changes needed to give the Persians the extra edge shouldn't be monumental I don't see why we don't just sanction DaVinci's work as an optional add-on for those that want it.

    This way you still get to play as the Persians and experience the difficulty which RoP really wanted to express. But if you want to play another faction *cough* Sparta *cough* then installing the add on will give you the sort of gameplay you would be hoping for.

    Alternatively if there's a way to boost Persia's prosperity without affecting the player's experience when playing as the Persians then thats not a bad idea at all.

  6. #6
    Gen.jamesWolfe's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: RoP's strategic balancing

    I have to say, I acually like this mod (ohrewse I wouldn't nit-pick on all the bugs, and the hoplites too). keep up the good work

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    Default Re: RoP's strategic balancing

    changes needed to give the Persians the extra edge shouldn't be monumental I don't see why we don't just sanction DaVinci's work as an optional add-on
    I would check it out in more detail-testing ... ie. i can remember that my changes as well gave Ionia obviuosly (unintended) a superior advantage, they became the power in Asia Minor (as i played Kyrene at least). If i would have the time i would work on it to get a quite good and proper global balance with special decent and reasonable Persian tweaks, but i haven't, unfortunately. Now, as far as i can remember, they perform very slightly better only, and won't become the superpower (i guess at least).
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    Rightwingers, like in the past the epitome of incompetence, except for evilness where they own the mastership.
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    Any chance for this exam? Very low, because the established Anthropocentrism destroys the basis of existence.
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    Default Re: RoP's strategic balancing

    RoP team, i just got an idea in regard of the Persia balance issue:

    Why not having 2 campaigns to offer?

    Camp 1 - Persia only playable, with your usual balancing, that you've achieved as yet, without to support Persia, rather make it hard for Persia as human player.

    Camp 2 - Persia not playable, with significant support codes for Persia AI, to make them a really threatening AI faction.
    Last edited by DaVinci; June 16, 2008 at 11:52 AM.
    #Anthropocene #not just Global Warming but Global Disaster, NASA #Deforestation #Plastic Emission #The Blob #Uninhabitable Earth #Savest Place On Earth #AMOC #ICAN #MIT study "Falsehoods Win" #Engineers of Chaos
    #"there can be no doubt about it: the enemy stands on the Right!" 1922, by Joseph Wirth.
    Rightwingers, like in the past the epitome of incompetence, except for evilness where they own the mastership.
    #"Humanity is in ‘final exam’ as to whether or not it qualifies for continuance in universe." Buckminster Fuller
    Any chance for this exam? Very low, because the established Anthropocentrism destroys the basis of existence.
    #My Modding #The Witcher 3: Lore Friendly Tweaks (LFT)
    #End, A diary of the Third World War (A.-A. Guha, 1983) - now, it started on 24th February 2022.

  9. #9

    Default Re: RoP's strategic balancing

    That seems like something that could really work.

    Nero?

  10. #10
    Deathbypepsi's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: RoP's strategic balancing

    that sounds like an awesome idea, playing persia is a lot of fun as is because its almost as challenging as the actualy campaigns they faced. obviously a few changes i.e. loyalty isnt implemented here (yet?).
    But the fact remains that I, im sure like everyone else who has played this mod, is desperate to scream 'this... is... SPARTA!!!' with the nth stack of persians swarming over greece and you have 4 units of hippeis spartiatai against them... I can't express in words the joy that would bring to literally tens of players.
    "What? In Mercia? the coconut is tropical!"
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  11. #11

    Default Re: RoP's strategic balancing

    Well, you guys must understand that the Rise of Persia (hah, that's the name of the mod) also involved quite a bit of luck, as all the great empires. I say; Leave it as it is now. Perhaps the empire of Bab-Ilun will take over the known world, and you would have to defend Hellas from hordes of Babylonians.

  12. #12
    Gen.jamesWolfe's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: RoP's strategic balancing

    Quote Originally Posted by Elphir View Post
    Well, you guys must understand that the Rise of Persia (hah, that's the name of the mod) also involved quite a bit of luck, as all the great empires. I say; Leave it as it is now. Perhaps the empire of Bab-Ilun will take over the known world, and you would have to defend Hellas from hordes of Babylonians.
    or from hordes of enslaved Mada cannon fodder

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