Kingdom of Saba

[Basil 11]

Whilst playing as this faction, I really enjoyed their units and strategic position, but I noticed that their cities were not as developed as they were in real history, and they do not appear to generate much money from their "lucrative" desert trade routes. Will it be possible to tweak the system to make the game-play more historical? :hmmm:

[sirfiggin]

they'd better.... also Carthage seems to contradict it's relentless" hardly any soldiers but lots of money for mercenaries" message, there are loads of Carthaginian units and they didn't seem better off than Rome.

[Fionn son of Cumhaill]

they'd better.... also Carthage seems to contradict it's relentless" hardly any soldiers but lots of money for mercenaries" message, there are loads of Carthaginian units and they didn't seem better off than Rome.

What are you talking about!The Carthaginians only have 3 or 4 units that are native to Afriqya(not Africa im talking about Punic citizens).I can only think of the Sacred Band(cavalry and phalanx)and the really bad Punic citizen militia.
The elephants,though native to North africa,were not Carthaginians but North africans,or Indians,in the employ of Carthage.
The Liby-Phoenician spearmen were half breeds,not of pure Punic descent,and so could not attain the priveleges of Citizenship.
Im sure if you actually the look at majority of recruitable units are foreigners(cant really remember as RTR and EB have merged in my memory)
Thats the Benefits of doing a massive Carthaginian thesis,based on Hannibal's War
and they did have massive armies,the first punic war was said to have caused more deaths than any other war in Antiquity(even Alexanders campaign to destroy the Archamedian empire)with over 50,000 roman citizens dead,not including the 100sof thousands Levies,allies,sailors and actual Carthaginian forces lost through out.

[sirfiggin]

What are you talking about!The Carthaginians only have 3 or 4 units that are native to Afriqya(not Africa im talking about Punic citizens).I can only think of the Sacred Band(cavalry and phalanx)and the really bad Punic citizen militia.
The elephants,though native to North africa,were not Carthaginians but North africans,or Indians,in the employ of Carthage.
The Liby-Phoenician spearmen were half breeds,not of pure Punic descent,and so could not attain the priveleges of Citizenship.
Im sure if you actually the look at majority of recruitable units are foreigners(cant really remember as RTR and EB have merged in my memory)
Thats the Benefits of doing a massive Carthaginian thesis,based on Hannibal's War
and they did have massive armies,the first punic war was said to have caused more deaths than any other war in Antiquity(even Alexanders campaign to destroy the Archamedian empire)with over 50,000 roman citizens dead,not including the 100sof thousands Levies,allies,sailors and actual Carthaginian forces lost through out.

The large number of foriegn troops were mercenaries, as in not equipt or trained to any large degree by the Carthaginians, Hannibal mainly depended on the skills his soldiers already possessed, and the experience they gained in war, so having spanish soldiers that can be trained by Carthage doesn't make them mercenaries, just foriegners. Most of the soldiers employed by Rome were non-Italic, especially after Augustus, what I meant was that for EB 2 the recruitment pool for Phoenician soldiers should be much smaller and the number of mercenaries available to recruit, very large.

[Ludens]

I think you attach to much importance to the word "mercenary". In history, a mercenary was merely someone who fought for a reward, rather than out of patriotic or feudal duty. The Liby-phoenician units are, by this standard, mercenaries. The fact that they were solely recruited by Carthago, or that they often had no prior experience at war, doesn't make a difference.

What was historically called a mercenary and what TW calls a mercenary are two different things.

I can't answer the Saba issue, other than saying that all cities in the game are underdeveloped, for gameplay reasons. Also, Saba may have been rich by Arabian standards, but that does not mean they were so by Mediterranean standards.

[sirfiggin]

Were auxilaries in the legions considered mercenaries?

[Basil 11]

I think you attach to much importance to the word "mercenary". In history, a mercenary was merely someone who fought for a reward, rather than out of patriotic or feudal duty. The Liby-phoenician units are, by this standard, mercenaries. The fact that they were solely recruited by Carthago, or that they often had no prior experience at war, doesn't make a difference.

What was historically called a mercenary and what TW calls a mercenary are two different things.

I can't answer the Saba issue, other than saying that all cities in the game are underdeveloped, for gameplay reasons. Also, Saba may have been rich by Arabian standards, but that does not mean they were so by Mediterranean standards.

Well, Saba was one of the key trading centres of the world, so it was probably one of the richest, too.

And also, if EB are scaling down some settlements, is this not historically inaccurate? Plus, I believe having some huge cities will make them huge goals, and extremely profitable when captured... :hmmm:

[Basil 11]

they'd better.... also Carthage seems to contradict it's relentless" hardly any soldiers but lots of money for mercenaries" message, there are loads of Carthaginian units and they didn't seem better off than Rome.

I actually partially agree with this - Rome is often richer (and just as advanced as) Carthage - just with less settlements. I beleive Carthage should start more powerful, with larger cities, as in reality, before the 1st Punic War, Carthage was much more of a major power - (possibly) the greatest power in the Meditteranean!

[I Am Herenow]

they'd better....

What do you, own them?

[sirfiggin]

What do you, own them?

no, only emphasis on paradox between faction description and reality, but thinking about how the Saba campaign description goes on about the fertility of their land, I'm guessing they mean in comparison to the desert,

not every statement is absolutely 100 % serious