-- Preview of Gondor --

[Nikos]

here's a question, do Gondor fans love the stewardship or would they rather see the kings back on throne?

Personally, I think that stewards have done a pretty good job despite the recent years of deterioration, saying that, having the white tree back in flower would be good. I would quite happily have Boromir as Steward even though Elessar makes a good king.

I would like to have a King, but due to it being unfaithful to the books, we will have to stick with a Steward. Perhaps an event can be triggered In game, or if you construct the right buildings, where the Steward would declare himself King?

[Basileutatos]

That would be great

[christof139]

Again, what I was saying was that Gondor is inspired by the idea of a long-decaying descendant of a great civilization, not by the literal attributes of Byzantium. Whether there was infantry in Byzantium or not, the ideal of heavy infantry conquering all was gone -- clearly. Kinstrife finds its origins not perpetual Byzantine assassinations but in the single terrible strife which ended the Roman glory in the 3rd century AD. Byzantines never stopped having usurpers and civil wars, assassinations of each other, betrayals, petty maliciousness, little boys ruling as kings, and constant murder of the court. This has no counterpart in Gondorian history, which as I say has a distantly noble aspect to it and in which the people, even if admitting that they are less noble than their predecessors, still try to cling towards propriety and attempt to maintain the nobility of behavior as much as possible.

So in two concrete factors, in military and politics, Gondor has no counterpart in Byzantium. As I say, Tolkien was inspired by the idea which Byzantium represented, rather than the actual country itself.

Politically and militarily, Gondor is much closer to the original Roman Empire, perhaps the last legions defending Britain or holding on to the borders in Pannonia.

Gondor is more similar to Byzantium than the original Roman Empire because the Byzantines had both a central government, regional and local governments and feudal type lords and landholders with themselves and their their own troops owing service to the central state. This was not so in the classical Roman Empire, as there weren't these feudal asppects present. Additionally, Byzantium was also a long established empire that decayed slowly over a great period of time.

[Eriagon]

But Gondor rise again and smack their enemies in their face

[Coeur de Lion]

I can't see why that wouldn't be possible. I think that the mod is loyal to the books in the sense of factions etc but the game cannot possibly be loyal in terms of events (hence the ring not playing a major part) so I don't think having the ability to create a king would be disloyal.

It could just be a random event like 'Isildur's Heir is found!!' big trumpets, lots of party and BAM you got a royal family now

[christof139]

Means not anyhting concerning the subject and point of the matter. Byzantium also had periods of resurgence as did the classical Roman Empire, but that has nothing to do with the point of the matter.

[Eriagon]

Means not anyhting concerning the subject and point of the matter. Byzantium also had periods of resurgence as did the classical Roman Empire, but that has nothing to do with the point of the matter.

Yes, but it rise from its darkest hour? No it got mowed down by the Ottomans.

I can't see Gondor crowning anyone but Aragorn king, its a matter of tradition in Gondor, combined that the Fourth Age (for Men) starts when Aragorn is crowned.

[christof139]

Yes, but it rise from its darkest hour? No it got mowed down by the Ottomans.

I can't see Gondor crowning anyone but Aragorn king, its a matter of tradition in Gondor, combined that the Fourth Age (for Men) starts when Aragorn is crowned.

Doesn't matter, as it does not pertain to the point of the matter. The point of the matter is a comparison of the structure and functioning of the political and military systems and the long periods of decay that eventually led to the demise or near demise of the states being discussed and not whether those states had periods of resurgence or survived.

[Nikos]

I can't see Gondor crowning anyone but Aragorn king, its a matter of tradition in Gondor, combined that the Fourth Age (for Men) starts when Aragorn is crowned.

But how will that work with Aragorn being part of the Eriador faction?

[christof139]

But how will that work with Aragorn being part of the Eriador faction?

It won't.

[Eriagon]

I know, and I personally linked Gondor to Byzantine. So I agree with you.

Damm Gondor would be sooooo much cooler in chainmail Well well...

@Aragorn: It won't, and it wont happen.

[Nikos]

I know, and I personally linked Gondor to Byzantine. So I agree with you.

Damm Gondor would be sooooo much cooler in chainmail Well well...

@Aragorn: It won't, and it wont happen.

Exactly, I like my idea, though it probably won't be implemented.

[christof139]

Yeah, Gondorian soldiers equipped per Tolkien not the movies, but the movies were OK.

[Nikos]

Yeah, Gondorian soldiers equipped per Tolkien not the movies, but the movies were OK.

I liked the second age Gondorians. They look like how I imagined the Gondorian soldiers in the book looked.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[christof139]

Yeah, that is how Tolkien describes the Gondorians of the late 3rd Age and the WotR. PJ just added plate armor.

[Eriagon]

The Second Age armor is great, truely wonderful, but I dont envision the ordinary Gondorian soldier in the late Third Age with wings on their helmets. And it has recently occured to me that no Gondorian soldier but the Citadel Guard used the Tree Emblem, that was reserved until the King's return...

[Nikos]

The Second Age armor is great, truely wonderful, but I dont envision the ordinary Gondorian soldier in the late Third Age with wings on their helmets. And it has recently occured to me that no Gondorian soldier but the Citadel Guard used the Tree Emblem, that was reserved until the King's return...

Then remove the wings from the helmet and remove the tree from the surcoat and banners. That would look pretty great actually.

[christof139]

Yeah, that armor and surcoat is only for members of the Tower of Guard, the Tower or Citadel Guard and the Fountain Guard (a bit fancier for the FG). I see Gondorian soldiers of the regular army as wearing something similar but with a simpler and different design on the surcoat - if they had a surcoat - and simpler helmets and shileds etc. The movie does show 2nd Age archers and they look different and have a somewhat more simpler looking outfit than the other Gondorian soldiery.

[Eriagon]

In my sketches I'm giving the Minas Tirith soldiers a white weapon coat, but never a heraldry... I havent decided yet, neither on helmet designs...

[christof139]

Problem with white surcoats is that sometimes it seems to cause problems on the battle screen, too much glare etc. If you made the white a very light gray or light gray or light medium gray that might help and look good.