Oh no the Muslims are breeding like Mosquitoes.

[mongrel]

And my solution is to kick out all racists and Muslim extremists.

The Netherlands was founded on one principal: tolerance.
If you aren't tolerant, you have no right to live in the Netherlands.

Erik, you can't be a racist for not liking muslims as they aren't a race...
so, come again!

As for your "solution" I'll eat Indiana Jones hat on the fact that you wouldn't dare throwing out these extremist in fear of being called intolerant and racist...

He was specific, he did say racist not Islamophobic. Your last point is typically PC, You don't understand them, let's do nothing and have the racists provide solutions.

[Dr. Croccer]

Erik, you can't be a racist for not liking muslims as they aren't a race...
so, come again!

Apparently I can be racist on Jews, Scientologists and Jehova Witnesses.

As for your "solution" I'll eat Indiana Jones hat on the fact that you wouldn't dare throwing out these extremist in fear of being called intolerant and racist...

It has already happened here. After the murder of Van Gogh dozens of radical imams were thrown out of the country.

We've done it before, we'll do it again.



....If the CDA pisses off.

[Valiant Champion]

[The Netherlands was founded on one principal: tolerance.
If you aren't tolerant, you have no right to live in the Netherlands.]

A religion of tolerance welcoming in an intolerant religion.

[versvlees]

Ehh, IRA, ETA????:hmmm:

Maybe something closer to home eh.

Lets see extremist Mollukans. (well they did have a point and many people actually understand their position) Seeing the short term memory of the Dutch people this was the first time this country was confronted with terrorism.

The bombings of leftist groups like RARA and the RAF loved to hide in the Netherlands as well.(one of these RAF bastards actually managed to kill a copper). Remember the Macro (kind of Walmart) didnt set itself on fire

Then you have the various h4rdcore criminals who like to blow each other up.Werent there like 2 recent bombings in the city of Delft?

And from all the nutters these are the worst of them all. The various Animal right and environmentalist groups. Personally I"m more afraid of these guys then Muslim Terrorists.
Why? Well for starters these people will get away with almost anything.(believe me although you hear little in the media they bomb, intimidate, destroy and beat people more then you might think) Most people in this country simply symphatize with them. The department of Justice does almost nothing to deal with these people. The British ALF is active now in the Netherlands because of this.
What even worse there is no one who dares to stand up against them. Simply because they are afraid they will be attacked as well. For example: the various charities for diseases who silently are in favour of animal testing for new medicine. I mean can imagine how bad it would be if this would happen with Muslim based terrorism.

Everyone is whining about Muslim based terrorism but they seem to forget there are other groups who love to blow up stuff too.

[Ahlerich]

[The Netherlands was founded on one principal: tolerance.
If you aren't tolerant, you have no right to live in the Netherlands.]

A religion of tolerance welcoming in an intolerant religion.

its not the religion that is tolerant or intolerant it is the followers of the religions
that are. depends on their interpretation of the religions.

christina religion is considered tolerant by many westerners i think and jet there are many christians that are intolerant towards other religions - there are christians that pray for a new crusade and wiping out all muslims.

intolerant humans are dangerous - not religions

little example - 2 christian opinions after 9/11

a. its written " an eye for an eye" so now we bomb the hell out of them
b. when jesus got slapped he offered his other cheek for a beating - we need to solve the problem peacefully

------------

i also would like to remind of the times when parts of spain were in muslim hands - there was (in context to the time) a significant tolerance towards non islma religions in spain.

[Phalanx300]

And my solution is to kick out all racists and Muslim extremists.

The Netherlands was founded on one principal: tolerance.
If you aren't tolerant, you have no right to live in the Netherlands.

Which is why I want the damn immigrants to leave!

[Chaigidel]

may as well find you a muslim wife and start doing the real work of unity

[Phalanx300]

may as well find you a muslim wife and start doing the real work of unity

I'd rather die. Nah, will just be going with a Dutch one. No culture mixing for me.

and totally accurate.



Phalanx. You have , quite unwittingly, become a case study. and I dare say a laughable one.



I have already explained how Mark Steyn's book lacks credibility , although I admire his capacity for making money from selling such stuff to the uneducated and the gullible.



I also provided another example demonstrating that all his ideas were utterly unoriginal and were readily applied to other groups 100 years ago. One can easily substitute any underdog race or group one can think of and you would have a whole new book or blog.



What do you do come up with ? More unsourced, bigoted drivel. Why should some Dutch citizens be forced to give up their homes and businesses to satisfy your aesthetic tastes? What do you propose to do with Christians and Jews who would also reject your values? What personal business benefits would your average Dutch person get from your fantasy world. about the same as they got between 1940 and 1944 I guess. Nationalists ought to work to better their country, not sell it out.



You say the (white) Dutch people are oppressed. Where is the evidence? I cannot think of a single state or business institution in Europe that is dominated by Muslims, not even in Turkey.



I see that you have already lost your Protestant culture to militant atheism, not Islam. Should you be blaming Richard Dawkins instead?



It is entirely possible to give the appearance of despising other races and be articulate, but as I say, such people tend use their dubious skills to organise conventions and write books, so as to get maximum financial benefit for themselves. I doubt if your views are based on your own observations, or any original thought.



You sir are the Comical Ali* of bigotry. Well done.





(*who hasn't ever LOL'd at this http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/)

Sorry but I'm something to laugh at? The kinds of people like you will couse the downfall of the once beatifull European countries. If we should be laughing at someone it would be you.

And why should Dutch citizens give up their homes? I never considered them Dutch citizens, along with alot of other Dutch. Even the immigrants don't consider themselves Dutch.

Also, you're all the way in Ireland, you don't know at all how its going here in Holland.

And about evidence, why show evidence at a pissed of christian who only insults others who don't agree with him? You called me nazi, but you would fit in better in that aspect.

And about losing protestant culture? I and many Altheist still have it. You somehow seem to connect religion with culture. Which if it would be the case would mean that the Islam is also a culture, which would mean that our countries would end up as the Islamic counties if this madness continues.

Also religion has nothing to do with culture anymore, then again, thats probably hard to belief for a hardcore christian.

And on your last sentences, that only confirms my point of you unsulting people with other opinions and thoughts. And that you are one among those who are ruining Europe, that already seemed obvious, why still trying to proove it?

[Chaigidel]

you really dont have a choice any more-- cultures will mix.

[Phalanx300]

you really dont have a choice any more-- cultures will mix.

We shall see.

[Valiant Champion]

It seems like Christians get bashed for a lot of injustice. We forget who started the whole mess during the dark and middle ages. It was the muslims. The Christian religion tried to remain passive until it was forced to defend itself at Tours. If the battle of Tours had not been fought then we would all be Muslims right now.

Spanish Inquisition - Total deaths from inquisitions over 300 years (3000)

Salem witch trials - Total deaths from trials - 18
_____________________________________________

Nazism during World War 2 (non-christian which denies Christ divinity) deaths for jews alone (6,000,000)

Japanese emperor cult during World War 2 - death among Chinese civilians (over 10,000,000)

I wonder how many people have been killed by the peaceful Muslims because they didnt want to worship Allah?

---------------------------------------

Its easy to pick on a Christian because most of the time you can walk away and he will just pray for you.

I dont think you would insult very many Muslims to their face because they might take matters a little more violently.

[Der Binks]

Greetings, fellow Game-Geeks:

Before I rant, just a big word of thanks to the folks who run this site, and all the mighty modders great and small for all they have added to these series of games. Amazing.

On Steyn

Actually, Mark Steyn didn't say the 'Mosquitoes' thing-- it's was a quote from the lovely & talented Mullah Krekar, and immigrant to Norway.. and he meant it as a hopeful thing as in "we will bury all you infidels, muwahahaha."

Aside from whether Steyn's thesis is correct or not, (1) lots of people-- including moderate Muslims-- agree with his concerns; (2) the Canadian government is using such issues to launch a freedom-denying inquisition against him and others. Noam Chomsky and a range of folks on the left and right are supporting his right to free speech against-- surprise-- militant Canadian Muslims who want to silence all critics and use tax-payer funded tribunals to do it.

As the history-detailers of some of the fine Total War mods know, details and accuracy are really important. For more info on all of this, read:

http://www.freemarksteyn.com
http://tiny.cc/gr1XN
http://tiny.cc/ycLgK
http://tiny.cc/OBXbC

Der Binks
FreeMarkSteyn.com

[Bwaho]

And my solution is to kick out all racists and Muslim extremists.

The Netherlands was founded on one principal: tolerance.
If you aren't tolerant, you have no right to live in the Netherlands.

I sense a lack of tolerance in you Erik

[Phalanx300]

Greetings, fellow Game-Geeks:

Before I rant, just a big word of thanks to the folks who run this site, and all the mighty modders great and small for all they have added to these series of games. Amazing.

On Steyn

Actually, Mark Steyn didn't say the 'Mosquitoes' thing-- it's was a quote from the lovely & talented Mullah Krekar, and immigrant to Norway.. and he meant it as a hopeful thing as in "we will bury all you infidels, muwahahaha."

Aside from whether Steyn's thesis is correct or not, (1) lots of people-- including moderate Muslims-- agree with his concerns; (2) the Canadian government is using such issues to launch a freedom-denying inquisition against him and others. Noam Chomsky and a range of folks on the left and right are supporting his right to free speech against-- surprise-- militant Canadian Muslims who want to silence all critics and use tax-payer funded tribunals to do it.

As the history-detailers of some of the fine Total War mods know, details and accuracy are really important. For more info on all of this, read:

http://www.freemarksteyn.com

http://tiny.cc/gr1XN

http://tiny.cc/ycLgK

http://tiny.cc/OBXbC

Der Binks
FreeMarkSteyn.com

Nice first post , but ehh, are you Canadian or German?

[mongrel]

Greetings, fellow Game-Geeks:

Before I rant, just a big word of thanks to the folks who run this site, and all the mighty modders great and small for all they have added to these series of games. Amazing.

On Steyn

Actually, Mark Steyn didn't say the 'Mosquitoes' thing-- it's was a quote from the lovely & talented Mullah Krekar, and immigrant to Norway.. and he meant it as a hopeful thing as in "we will bury all you infidels, muwahahaha."

Aside from whether Steyn's thesis is correct or not, (1) lots of people-- including moderate Muslims-- agree with his concerns; (2) the Canadian government is using such issues to launch a freedom-denying inquisition against him and others. Noam Chomsky and a range of folks on the left and right are supporting his right to free speech against-- surprise-- militant Canadian Muslims who want to silence all critics and use tax-payer funded tribunals to do it.

As the history-detailers of some of the fine Total War mods know, details and accuracy are really important. For more info on all of this, read:

http://www.freemarksteyn.com
http://tiny.cc/gr1XN
http://tiny.cc/ycLgK
http://tiny.cc/OBXbC

Der Binks
FreeMarkSteyn.com

Good effort. Didn't look like a rant, although I am surprised some people have taken the effort to defend his position. I presume it is because of the general principle of free speech rather than his theories.

I did not attribute the Mosquitoes quite to Steyn. It merely puts across the message better than I think "Mark Steyn publishes crap books in order to make lots of money." I am aware of the lawsuit, although this is peripheral to the thrust of my thread, which is that this book and many like it are inaccurate, poorly-researched, are too derivative of earlier works, and in are fact are interchangeable with them. Sledgehammer and nut comes to mind as far as the lawsuit is concerned. At the same time I wouldn't expect the affected groups to remain silent over this book, in the same way that I would expect Beijing to react strongly against Jack London's story, had it been published today.

I think it is better to ridicule such works, than, as you mention, use the force of law. I would not put him in the same category as say David Irving who deserved what he got. I think in Steyn's case he writes such books purely because it is more lucrative than writing articles on BritArt. He does not seem to pretend to be an expert on Islam and it shows.

I'd rather die. Nah, will just be going with a Dutch one. No culture mixing for me.



Sorry but I'm something to laugh at? The kinds of people like you will couse the downfall of the once beatifull European countries. If we should be laughing at someone it would be you.

And why should Dutch citizens give up their homes? I never considered them Dutch citizens, along with alot of other Dutch. Even the immigrants don't consider themselves Dutch.

Also, you're all the way in Ireland, you don't know at all how its going here in Holland.

And about evidence, why show evidence at a pissed of christian who only insults others who don't agree with him? You called me nazi, but you would fit in better in that aspect.

And about losing protestant culture? I and many Altheist still have it. You somehow seem to connect religion with culture. Which if it would be the case would mean that the Islam is also a culture, which would mean that our countries would end up as the Islamic counties if this madness continues.

Also religion has nothing to do with culture anymore, then again, thats probably hard to belief for a hardcore christian.

And on your last sentences, that only confirms my point of you unsulting people with other opinions and thoughts. And that you are one among those who are ruining Europe, that already seemed obvious, why still trying to proove it?

Phalanx 300. Like an American bomber* you try to hit the target and miss every time.

I recall that a racist regime nearly caused the downfall of what was a beautiful Europe. Did you bunk off history lessons? Here's what they did to Rotterdam in 1940. I wouldn't say it was beautiful at all.



Of course, such people were nothing like me. Their values are more akin to yours I would argue.

You suggest that you are unable to provide evidence, lest you face mockery. Has it not occurred to you that you face my ridicule because your arguments are so poor and stereotypical. I am more than capable of acknowledging, or indeed giving rep to those who disagree with me, yet provide a good argument, as my posting record will verify. I put it to you that you have no facts to offer. The only things of note I have seen are cartoons, supposedly meant to demonstrate that Muslims are inherently violent. Using the same logic I can prove that dogs can fly.



There, must be true.

I live in London now. Part of being in a free, world economy is that you can live and work where you like as long as you have marketable skills. It's a bit of a bummer if one hasn't got any, but that is what education and training is for. I would rather work hard and provide for my own than sit on my arse, blame immigrants and expect the state to help me.

You cannot be a Protestant and an atheist. This is a true Comical Ali moment.To be a Christian you need to;

1- believe in God
2- believe in Christ
3- understand the workings of the Holy Spirit.

It has been like that since the Nicean Council over 1600 years ago. Basic stuff really. Did the Muslims teach you to forget the most basic tenets of your culture and not bother attending Church? Hardly, yet for some stupid reason it's their fault. I won't criticise you for being an Atheist. That is a matter of conscience. But to blame someone else for you and others for the consequent disconnection with your own culture, that is laughable.

You say religion has nothing with culture ( I disagree) but you then say a group has a different culture because of their religion and for that they should lose their civil rights. Well has it or hasn't it? Get a grip.

I do not believe that comedy is harmful to the welfare of Europe in any way. Do we all have to be bloody miserable in your world as well as having to do without kebabs and curries? I prefer the proper Holland where everyone is free to have a good time.

This man must be your worst nightmare.

http://www.omidnoagenda.com/


*feel free to substitute air force of choice.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

Is this still going on? Whelp time to catch me some closed off westerners and round them up. Think i'll put them in camps like phalanx wants to do. I mean look at Dubai, do the westerners mix or do they have thier own compounds?

[Dr. Croccer]

I sense a lack of tolerance in you Erik

I shall not tolerate intolerance to the intolerant.

[Strattios]

First off, Nice to see you again Mongrel. I see you did keep your promise on bad mouthing Mark Steyn. You also managed to insult everyone on this thread who didn't agree with you.

Secondly, great posts Phalanx and Der Binks. I'd give you a +rep if I could, unfortunately I can't.Third, I am just curious, have any of you read Mark Steyn's America Alone?:hmmm:
Cause if you haven't, you can hardly debate the accuracy of the statements. Especially this peace as none of his facts have been proven substantially inaccurate.

I'm thoroughly overjoyed whenever a see a nation that enforces people's freedom of speech (so long as the government has no issues with whats being said).

Those who try to blame Nazi's for their racism, remember what caused them to "gain the support of the people in their actions". It was a crumbling economy and a fear of Communists. Unfortunately, they took it further than most people could have guessed.

On Nationalism; unlike racism, sexism, and just about any other -ism out there, nationalism isn't about disliking other nations but rather liking yours and trying to do the best that you can for your nation.

On immigrants; they are really only a bit of a problem right at the beginning of their entrance into a new nation, the primary reason for this is typically a difference in the way people act and live in their new homeland versus how they used to live in their old homeland. In most circumstances, the immigrants change to conform with their new surroundings. They may change a few things in the new country like some new ways of thinking or most typically, new foods. It can be challenging if immigrants are in some way forced to leave their old nation and move somewhere new. Their kids might not know what it was really like where their parents came from and may then idolize what they perceive to be their heritage. (this is true of some Hispanic friends of mine, they thought that their home countries were perfect and that their parents were wrong to have moved. They then went back to visit some relatives and discovered the hardships in that country and were grateful that their parents moved.)

Again, I shall put forth my belief that it isn't religions or races that are the problem, it's how people choose to act. If you live a certain way that is considered acceptable in your home nation, then fine. But if you move to another nation and your previous lifestyle is unacceptable their, you should change your behavior. After all, it was your choice for you to move their, not your host country's and its just how societies work.

[mongrel]

First off, Nice to see you again Mongrel. I see you did keep your promise on bad mouthing Mark Steyn. You also managed to insult everyone on this thread who didn't agree with you.

Secondly, great posts Phalanx and Der Binks. I'd give you a +rep if I could, unfortunately I can't.Third, I am just curious, have any of you read Mark Steyn's America Alone?:hmmm:
Cause if you haven't, you can hardly debate the accuracy of the statements. Especially this peace as none of his facts have been proven substantially inaccurate.

I'm thoroughly overjoyed whenever a see a nation that enforces people's freedom of speech (so long as the government has no issues with whats being said).

Those who try to blame Nazi's for their racism, remember what caused them to "gain the support of the people in their actions". It was a crumbling economy and a fear of Communists. Unfortunately, they took it further than most people could have guessed.

On Nationalism; unlike racism, sexism, and just about any other -ism out there, nationalism isn't about disliking other nations but rather liking yours and trying to do the best that you can for your nation.

On immigrants; they are really only a bit of a problem right at the beginning of their entrance into a new nation, the primary reason for this is typically a difference in the way people act and live in their new homeland versus how they used to live in their old homeland. In most circumstances, the immigrants change to conform with their new surroundings. They may change a few things in the new country like some new ways of thinking or most typically, new foods. It can be challenging if immigrants are in some way forced to leave their old nation and move somewhere new. Their kids might not know what it was really like where their parents came from and may then idolize what they perceive to be their heritage. (this is true of some Hispanic friends of mine, they thought that their home countries were perfect and that their parents were wrong to have moved. They then went back to visit some relatives and discovered the hardships in that country and were grateful that their parents moved.)

Again, I shall put forth my belief that it isn't religions or races that are the problem, it's how people choose to act. If you live a certain way that is considered acceptable in your home nation, then fine. But if you move to another nation and your previous lifestyle is unacceptable their, you should change your behavior. After all, it was your choice for you to move their, not your host country's and its just how societies work.

Greetings better late than never.

As always inaccurate though.

I have no issues with Steyn himself. I suppose he was a quite agreeable art critic in his day. I just object to him cashing in on the War on Terror and it's aftermath, whilst good men are being paid a pittance fighting the real war, with the ever present risk of injury or death.

You will find that I gave Der Binks some respect and understood his approach, despite my contempt for Steyn. ( Brian Sewell was always a better art critic anyway). I continue to roast Phalanx because he is incapable of producing a coherent argument. He detests black people but he is not a racist. He is an atheist but wishes to preserve Christian culture. As I mock him, he insults our intelligence.

I have read as much of the book as one can with a muffin and coffee and some spare time. I could see that Johann Hari's review was indeed truly accurate. As regards the accuracy of Steyn's remarks it is biologically impossible for the Muslim population to outnumber the rest of Europe by 2020. Anyone lives near, or works with or, as n my case, has managed Muslims would tell you that they are as diverse as any other group and more so than some faiths. But Steyn has you believe they are a monolithic block with a common purpose.
Heres one quote "The Spanish Inquisition, which remains a byword for theocratic violence, killed fewer people in a century and a half than the jihad does in a typical year". How does he know? There are no agreed figures for the numbers killed in the Inquisition , Scholars have quoted figures ranging from 3,000 to 3 million. Even if we take the lowest figure, excluding Iraq, as it is a part civil war, part insurgency, I struggle to see how Al Quada or any similar agency could have managed to chalk up 3,000 kills per year. Steyn relies on people being non too curious to look up the facts themselves. I could go on, but as I said, Johann Hari said it all.The strongest argument though, as I mentioned,this is entirely derivative stuff. We have heard this all before, it was untrue then and it is now.

I wouldn't even pretend to know how immigrants think. They come from all corners of the world. Why would a Pole have the same drivers as a Turk, or a Somali have a similar culture to Brazilian or a Nigerian have the same needs as a Frenchman. Patronising. Everyone is different. And as for assimilation, religious people of all faiths will always put their faith before the creed of any politician. Should Christians and Jews be forced to conform? And why can't racists conform to the norms of civilised society too?

I am beginning to have hope though. At least one senior politician in the UK has recognised that the real threat to our constitution is not terrorism but our government.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...ll-845709.html

[rory o'kane]

Ironic that - the country with the most Muslims in Europe is a militantly secular one! that makes me happy.
oh, and RE: David Davis's resignation, it's certainly a noble thing to do, but I'm not too sure if it's good for the Conservative Party as a whole...