Why is the west more sympathetic to Tibetan Independance, than Palestinean independance?

[Exarch]

especially since the borders of palestine are more clearly defined than those of tibet?
and why have the PLA and even hezbollah in lebanon (victims of israeli aggression) been labelled terrorist organizations, yet the tibetan youth congress is lauded as a freedom fighting resistance group when their actions are comparable to the aforementioned (heck u can even compare them to Basque seperatists)?
:hmmm:
i see double standards here, gentlemen.

[PointOfViewGun]

Right now the West, at least USA, would use every single bad thing to weaken Chinese. If Israel was a threat to the West, Palestine would already have it's own state established and protected by the West.

[christof139]

True...Just look at all the ANTI CHINA propaganda by the West...

Much of it such as the shooting of Tibetans leaving Tibet by Chinese troops, the use of convict and criminal labor, the many times shoddy and sometimes dangerous products exports by China, the massive illegal CD and DVD pirating in China, etc.

Chris

[Sebdeas]

Tibetans blowing themselves and civilians up?
Never heard of that before. Got a source for it?

[PointOfViewGun]

Tibetans blowing themselves and civilians up?
Never heard of that before. Got a source for it?

Just because some Palestinians blowing things up doesn't really give anyone right to take their right to exist from them.

It's more about culture than morality.

[Каие]

Tibetans blowing themselves and civilians up?
Never heard of that before. Got a source for it?

What came first the support of Israel and occupation or the suicide?

[duda]

Because the west don't fear Israel, they fear the Chinese...And, I looked into it and concluded TIBET should never be independent...

Right now the West, at least USA, would use every single bad thing to weaken Chinese. If Israel was a threat to the West, Palestine would already have it's own state established and protected by the West.

True...Just look at all the ANTI CHINA propaganda by the West...

[Icefrisco]

The main reason is that Palestinian culture (more so in the Gaza strip) has a strong element of anti-Semitism and radicial Islamism. This scares a lot of westerners. This culture of hate has led to numerous terrorist actions that only makes Palestinians look like worse people. Also, Arafat and Hamas have really hurt the image of Palestinians.

Meanwhile, Tibetans are lead by a peaceful leader (the Dalai Lama) and they don't blow civilians up oftenly. Instead they usually protest or rise in full revolt and attack Chinese military installations. Also, many people view Tibetan culture as under attack while Palestinans don't have a unique culture.

[Dr. Croccer]

The main reason is that Palestinian culture (more so in the Gaza strip) has a strong element of anti-Semitism and radicial Islamism.

Lol suicide.

This scares a lot of westerners. This culture of hate has led to numerous terrorist actions that only makes Palestinians look like worse people. Also, Arafat and Hamas have really hurt the image of Palestinians.

However, they're walled up and arguably oppressed and in diaspora. Hence why there are mixed opinions. And yes, a leader who donates blood to victims of Israeli airstrikes hours after they attack before negotiations is really bad for Paalestinian public opinion.

Meanwhile, Tibetans are lead by a peaceful leader (the Dalai Lama) and they don't blow civilians up oftenly. Instead they usually protest or rise in full revolt and attack Chinese military installations. Also, many people view Tibetan culture as under attack while Palestinans don't have a unique culture.

Err... they attacked every Chinese in sight, trashed every Chinese store in sight and the Dalai Lama told them to go on. The Chinese had to pull policemen from other provinces to quell them.

At least the Chinese don't fire with Uzi's at them or bomb them. Nudge, nudge.

[jankren]

Real politik.

[roy34543]

Apart from the aforementioned fact that there is more a fear of china and muslims, its also the fact that once a palestenian state is established, Its probably just going to run into one disaster after another. It has no natural resources and almost the entire population is unskilled. It also has significant aid in matters of food and energy from Israel even now that its cut by about a tenth. And once an Palestenian state is established Israel has every reason and right to tell it to go look after itself. I dont really think anyone wants to be the person who said "lets make a palestenian state" and then go "umm I think im going to skip on helping them out this time" It also has virtually no value to western goverments, Most of its inhabitents do not speak a western language and therefore cannot trade with them easily, theres little farmable land and its people do not like them much either. Even the muslim goverments only support it for the reason that it will weaken Israel to have them around. It also has very little strategic value except from that, every part of it that could potentially be used as a base to help stablize the rest of the middle east can be better had with Israel.

Its goverment is also extremely unstable and it will suffer the same symptoms that Africa had after colonialism . Its current goverment is solely based on attacking Israel and is going to recieve only a fraction of the foreign support and donations it does now once its "kill Israel" agenda is gone. Its also extremely prone to falling under a dictator rather then democratic. It also suffers from the fact that soon the entire world will be indifferent to the middle east conflict.It also has the fact that militant groups in it will try and fracture it to attack Israel. Its goverment is going to be told that it has to stop these by Israel and its going to have to spend its budget on stopping these or probably be attacked.

On top of that it has no moral benefits from existing except that palestenian nationalisim is sated. every citizen in there is better off moving to jordan. They wotn make more money or recieve special attention anymore. Theyre probably going to have the sunni/shiite divide bite them in the rear at some point as well. Their infastructure sucks. They have no oil they now officially spend little militarily as a goverment because it doesnt really exist or get measured, But if it becomes an official one it will end up spending a large amount of its money on the military, Similar to Israel . Once the blockade is ended you can bet everyone there will save up to run away to another country . Theres probably going to be a lot of groups of self-motivated warlords rising up. There already are in gaza and the west bank!Once Israel is gone as an enemy they have theyre going to eventually have to critisize themselves.
Honestly there is a lot of reasons why there is no value except in peoples mind why a country for the palestenians should be made. To be fair, most of these reasons are virtually the same for when Israel was made except that it would very soon have a skilled populace.

comparing to taiwan, Theyre relatively peaceful. They have little except political deteriment towards china, they would be pretty much the same as they dont rely on china excessively. They have a convincing leader. They have their own culture. They wouldnt be better off or worse living in another country. They can grow their own food and have their own industries. They dont have as much of a religous split. They can benefit a lot from deciding their own policies fully.Their own taxes would go to much better use in a taiweneese goverment over the chineese one.
even then though its basically the same. both countries only reason to exist is nationalisim.

[the Black Prince]

I'll consider the palestianian cause as equal to the Tibetan one when the palestinians stop blowing up buses full of innocent children. Until then, yes, the tibetans are an oppressed people fighting through legitimate means for freedom, whereas the palestinians are brutal terrorists and every measure needs to be taken to ensure that innocents are protected from them. And yes, when the palestinians civilians are harbouring terrorists, giving aid comfort and succour to terrorists, encouraging terrorists and making martyrs out of brutal murderers, they can be expected to be treated as no different to the actual terrorists in their midst.

Do you honestly believe that the Israeli government would not be more amenable to a peaceful resolution if on a weekly basis their soldiers were not pulling the bodies of innocent civilians from the wreckage of the latest suicide bomb or mortar blast, or if they did not have to deal with the daily anguish of the many israeli citizens who rightfully and legitimately demand that their government protect them from such atrocity.

violence begets violence and is NEVER the best solution. So long as palestine continues to be an aggressor, they will get nowhere, because israel will have to respond to protect itself and its people.

The tibetans have a far more peaceful outlook, and when they rise up, the chinese move in to quell the resistance, and the chinese authorities get attacked. You don't see buses full of school children in Beijing or the nearest chinese city being blown up by a tibetan militant.

Thats the difference between the two, and so long as that difference remains, civil society will always look better on the tibetans, because we feel a great deal of discomfort about supporting murderers and the accessories to murder.

[Exarch]

Thats the difference between the two, and so long as that difference remains, civil society will always look better on the tibetans, because we feel a great deal of discomfort about supporting murderers and the accessories to murder

so why dont u feel discomfort at the han chinese who were murdered by tibetan rioters?
why dont u feel discomfort at a movement that advocates the partition of a soverign nation?
'free tibet'? are u kidding? that's like 25% of china.
and is it any wonder why no state to date recognizes the state of tibet?
because they dont have a leg to stand on when it comes to tibetan independance; at least taiwan's government is recognized by a few countries.

[roy34543]

I think its also that taiwan has a lot more of a a neutral image in the west . While many americans think palestenians=muslim=evil.

but some tibetan seperatists have commited comparable things like that.
thosae han chinese girls who were burned alive?
and many many more
the tibetan youth congress which advocates violence?

Most dont support it actively though. while 68% of palestenians or so support hamas greatly. I dont know if theres figures for it but i dont think that even 10% of taiweneese would think a murderous violent and non-civilian discriminating goverment is the best for them.
Also, The Western goverments dont actually say "We dont want a palestenian state" as such. They just say that Israel should work at it at its own pace more or less. In other words they officially support the two-state soloution but dont want to displease Israel by pushing it.

[Old_Scratch]

I'm sympathetic to neither cause. Both of them are causing needless civilian deaths. They should come to a reasonable compromise but unfortunately people are too stubborn for that to ever happen.

[Pivra]

the best thing China can do about the West is to close your eyes, close your ears, you will always be evil, if your not part of the "La Organización de Crackerlandia" then you're pretty much evil.... just look at Japan, they are still viewed as freaks....look at Iranians...France and Britain can have nukes, but they cant, look at China....you guys get sheet thrown at you... look at Turkey, they applied for EU before Spain or Portugal did, they are still waiting.... look at us... whoredom in Europe is extreme, we are made into Neo-Babylon..... look at how India is portrayed, if they dont do computers they are stupid illiterate brownies, if they do, they are the race of tech supports....much more, how about, we just dont care what they say and get on with life, they point fingers at everyone without but avoid to talk about all the screwed up things they did or are doing.... there are just two types of people in the world, racists and lairs, they will either be one of those or both.... living in Canada the so called tolerant liberal country, tell you something, middle eastern, indian or asian ppl are viewed with more discrimination and prejudgement than blacks, the West created the concept of this huge a$z continent called Asia to create one big common enemy starting from Bithynia to Japan....and the "astrayed white people" like the Easter Bloc were grouped with the "barbarious evil peoples of the East" as well, so, the only thing i can say we do, is... screw them, let we dont need to hear those stuff, they can say whatever they want. its their "freedom of speech", right? they can go on drawing Mohammed with explosive turban or put Buddha´s heads on their closets or make fun of Ganesh on Simpsons, but if we dont listen to them, or don't take them seriously they cannot do anything, just because white people say so, doesnt mean that we are, I dont mind if some westerners shoot the Bhagavat Gita, because i know my mentality is higher than theirs and that someone so perfect and omnipotent as God who created something such as the Universe would give a $hit about something like this is ridiculous... lol

i dont know, im on a rant... never gonna go back to Canada again, wasted 3 years of my life, made some friends yes, but ill never look at tourists the same way again.. lol

[Xan]

the best thing China can do about the West is to close your eyes, close your ears, you will always be evil, if your not part of the "La Organización de Crackerlandia" then you're pretty much evil.... just look at Japan, they are still viewed as freaks....look at Iranians...France and Britain can have nukes, but they cant, look at China....you guys get sheet thrown at you... look at Turkey, they applied for EU before Spain or Portugal did, they are still waiting.... look at us... whoredom in Europe is extreme, we are made into Neo-Babylon..... look at how India is portrayed, if they dont do computers they are stupid illiterate brownies, if they do, they are the race of tech supports....much more, how about, we just dont care what they say and get on with life, they point fingers at everyone without but avoid to talk about all the screwed up things they did or are doing.... there are just two types of people in the world, racists and lairs, they will either be one of those or both.... living in Canada the so called tolerant liberal country, tell you something, middle eastern, indian or asian ppl are viewed with more discrimination and prejudgement than blacks, the West created the concept of this huge a$z continent called Asia to create one big common enemy starting from Bithynia to Japan....and the "astrayed white people" like the Easter Bloc were grouped with the "barbarious evil peoples of the East" as well, so, the only thing i can say we do, is... screw them, let we dont need to hear those stuff, they can say whatever they want. its their "freedom of speech", right? they can go on drawing Mohammed with explosive turban or put Buddha´s heads on their closets or make fun of Ganesh on Simpsons, but if we dont listen to them, or don't take them seriously they cannot do anything, just because white people say so, doesnt mean that we are, I dont mind if some westerners shoot the Bhagavat Gita, because i know my mentality is higher than theirs and that someone so perfect and omnipotent as God who created something such as the Universe would give a $hit about something like this is ridiculous... lol

i dont know, im on a rant... never gonna go back to Canada again, wasted 3 years of my life, made some friends yes, but ill never look at tourists the same way again.. lol

Seriously ?

Turkey was not accepted in to the EU cause the laws in Turkey break many basic democratic princepels like you can get jailed for criticizing the state and i also think that Turkey has a relatively weak economy so that it would be extremely expensive for the oter members to build up the country.

Now i`m a Norwegian and i have never looked at the huge continent of Asia as a area of enemy's i could honestly like to go to both Japan and China.

Yes religious figures and symbols are used in commcercial and comic ways here. I think it is a good thing nothing shud be above comedy. It`s not an attack on Asia or a personal attack on you it`s making fun of religion and if you payed attansion Christendom is by far the religion that is ridiculed the most.
We have freedom of speech and that is a corner stone of freedom and that is as it shud be. Even if i don`t always like how some pepole choose to use that freedom.

As for Tibet well China invaded that country and has occupied it by force, they have also made attempts to destroy the Tibetan population by controlling birth rates. So yes i am for Tibetian freedom. Not cause i hate China but cause i believe Tibet like any oter country deserves to be free.

Palestine is different was it ever its own country ? I believe that something has to be done to create some type of peace but it is hard to find one when the Palestinians only seem to be content if Israel is irradiated.
And isn`t it funny that Palestinians livening in Israel is treated better then Palestinians livening in there own areas?

[ray243]

Seriously ?

Turkey was not accepted in to the EU cause the laws in Turkey break many basic democratic princepels like you can get jailed for criticizing the state and i also think that Turkey has a relatively weak economy so that it would be extremely expensive for the oter members to build up the country.

Now i`m a Norwegian and i have never looked at the huge continent of Asia as a area of enemy's i could honestly like to go to both Japan and China.

Yes religious figures and symbols are used in commcercial and comic ways here. I think it is a good thing nothing shud be above comedy. It`s not an attack on Asia or a personal attack on you it`s making fun of religion and if you payed attansion Christendom is by far the religion that is ridiculed the most.
We have freedom of speech and that is a corner stone of freedom and that is as it shud be. Even if i don`t always like how some pepole choose to use that freedom.

As for Tibet well China invaded that country and has occupied it by force, they have also made attempts to destroy the Tibetan population by controlling birth rates. So yes i am for Tibetian freedom. Not cause i hate China but cause i believe Tibet like any oter country deserves to be free.

Palestine is different was it ever its own country ? I believe that something has to be done to create some type of peace but it is hard to find one when the Palestinians only seem to be content if Israel is irradiated.
And isn`t it funny that Palestinians livening in Israel is treated better then Palestinians livening in there own areas?

Ah yes, while you are at, let's return all of the USA back to the native americans, or grant indepedence to Hawaii, even if the people who wanted independence is a minority. Also, you might as well deport almost of the people in the US, just because their forefathers is immigrant to the americas and the say of the native population is SOO much greater than the immigrants. ( Because you said that china is wrong to shift their own population around ).

How many countries isn't born from the act of conquest? Borders change all the times throughout history, and it is the modern day borders that shape the global politics.


Oh, and politics is the main issue that shape the view of the average people who don't bother to understand the sistuation at all. After all, there is a reason why you will hear more news about the chinese mistreating the tibetians as compared to the Iraselis mistreating the Palestinean.

Let's not forget the issue of religion as well...the idea of an atheist government mistreating the religious groups.


Oh ya, if people say buddishim is peaceful...did you even see reports where the monks resorts to violence during the tibetian uprising?

And, Buddishism means you should not be shaped by a material want...that include independence as well...great irony.

Have anyone considered the fact that buddhist teachings is distorted in tibet?

[Pivra]

Seriously ?

Turkey was not accepted in to the EU cause the laws in Turkey break many basic democratic princepels like you can get jailed for criticizing the state and i also think that Turkey has a relatively weak economy so that it would be extremely expensive for the oter members to build up the country.

Now i`m a Norwegian and i have never looked at the huge continent of Asia as a area of enemy's i could honestly like to go to both Japan and China.

well, EU obviously didnt see any problem with Bulgaria and Romania regarding the said issues.. lol I realize that Norway is not in the EU and maybe you dont think like that, but the real mainstream Western nations including USA and Canada and other gringolandia nations probably have that type of thinging, they want to group us into one big continent and then when I told them I could read Arabic and could read Hindi through learning Sanskrit, they were all like.. oh, weird, you shouldnt be able to do that.. (only white people can be professed in the cultures of others.. apparently) like I wouldnt go back to Canada to visit my friends on my own money..especially the midwestern canada where i used to live lol, I have been to New Zealand, but i wouldnt go back there on my own money...now im glad im back home not planning to leave it again..

[roy34543]

To be truthful. Foreign opinion is the most overrated thing in existance. Foreign opinion isnt worth garbage. Its impossible to get any country to view you favourably unless they massacred you ten years ago.