Siege Equipment and Gates

**war927** · May 28, 2008, 11:56 PM

Is there any way to make it possible for larger siege equipment to fit through gates? I find it annoying that when I sally forth, I can't bring my siege weapons outside with me.

**Tiwaz** · May 29, 2008, 12:20 AM

Look at the gate.

Then look at the mangronel/trebuchet for example.

Do they look same size to you? Honestly, just MOVING trebuchet after it is rebuilt is incredible feat. Moving it through gate which is fraction of it's height would be miracle.

Just put them right next to wall and shoot over it.

**Crimson Scythe** · May 29, 2008, 01:09 AM

Or just shoot through your own wall (i.e., destroy a part of it yourself). Sometimes allowing the enemy into your city in a controlled manner (i.e., through your own breach) can be a good way to set a trap.

Manoeuvering your siege engines, especially the bigger ones like the trebuchet and mangonel can be a bit of a pain because of the pathfinding limitations of the engine. This makes shooting over your walls a bit tricky, sometimes, unless you're using mortars, of course.

**war927** · May 29, 2008, 09:51 PM

Tiwaz, it's a video game, I'm not really concerned whether or not the trebuchet could have been moved in real life. It would be far less fun of a game if all the siege engines were forced to be stationary after the deployment phase, considering you almost always have to move to the enemy just to get a single shot off.

And Crimson, believe me, if shooting through my own walls was an option, I'd gladly do it, but most of the time the enemy is to far to even target so as to hit your walls on purpose.

So if making gates siege engine accessible is a game limitation, is it possible to set your own walls to targetable so that you could target them yourself and just knock them down?

**Tiwaz** · May 30, 2008, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by war927

Tiwaz, it's a video game, I'm not really concerned whether or not the trebuchet could have been moved in real life. It would be far less fun of a game if all the siege engines were forced to be stationary after the deployment phase, considering you almost always have to move to the enemy just to get a single shot off.

Original Medieval: Total war included stationary trebuchets.
And as said, getting trebuchet through gate which clearly is nowhere near large enough to let it pass is just... Silly.

If it is too big to fit the gate in graphics, making it fit through by magic would not make much sense would it?

As for walls... Take into account the inaccuracy of siege weapons. You are reducing your defensive positions if you knock down your own wall and are unlikely to score much good hits in enemy army.

Besides, having intact wall for enemy siegetower to reach while maneuvering your trebuchet to opposite side of the wall is fun. Specially when that mentioned trabuchet starts spamming rocks into that tower.

**Gorrrrrn** · May 30, 2008, 05:09 AM

Why not build bombards?

they fit through gates.

**Tiwaz** · May 30, 2008, 05:54 AM

No bombards for Byzantium for example.

**Finz** · May 30, 2008, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Tiwaz

No bombards for Byzantium for example.

Wrong, byzantium does have bombards in SS.

(atleast in my game..)

**Babagitta** · May 30, 2008, 07:00 AM

Yep, that's correct.

**saamohod** · May 30, 2008, 11:00 AM

It seems like a sort of inconsistency. On the campain map you can move your trebuchet in and out of a castle/city. On the battle map you can't.
Still it could be explained by dismantling the trebuchet on the campaign map, since you can afford time. In battle you can't afford it

**aduellist** · May 30, 2008, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by saamohod

It seems like a sort of inconsistency. On the campain map you can move your trebuchet in and out of a castle/city. On the battle map you can't.
Still it could be explained by dismantling the trebuchet on the campaign map, since you can afford time. In battle you can't afford it

Quite true. In reality those large siege engines would have been transported dismantled and assembled on site. Nothing bigger than a catapult (aka onager) would have been transported whole or ever used in a field battle.

In fact, I'd love it if it were possible to build siege engines in the opening phase of a siege, just like ladders/rams/towers, if your army contained a recruitable or mercenary "siege engineer" unit. Alas, not possible AFAIK.

**Gorrrrrn** · May 30, 2008, 11:28 AM

In fact, I'd love it if it were possible to build siege engines in the opening phase of a siege, just like ladders/rams/towers, if your army contained a recruitable or mercenary "siege engineer" unit. Alas, not possible AFAIK.

Well you can interpret the siege engine moving on the campaign map as just that - a potential siege engine with its engineers (who also fire it) which gets built just in time for a battle.

(What would be cool is a unit of engineers who could build bridges, so you didn't have to go on long detours round choke points.)

**aduellist** · May 30, 2008, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Rozanov

Well you can interpret the siege engine moving on the campaign map as just that - a potential siege engine with its engineers (who also fire it) which gets built just in time for a battle.

I agree with that concept. The only issue I have is that if I wind up in a field battle along the march, there are the trebuchets and not just the siege engineers.

(What would be cool is a unit of engineers who could build bridges, so you didn't have to go on long detours round choke points.)

Now THAT I'd love to see!

**Gaius Flavius Belisarius** · May 30, 2008, 11:44 AM

It really annoyed me in RTW how I couldn't bring my siege equipment with me into a city, even though the gaps in the walls and gates were generally larger than the equipment.

**Crimson Scythe** · May 30, 2008, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Gaius Flavius Belisarius

It really annoyed me in RTW how I couldn't bring my siege equipment with me into a city, even though the gaps in the walls and gates were generally larger than the equipment.

To be fair, there was really no reason for this option in RTW, since you didn't have multi-layered walls like in M2TW. It still would have been fun to point-blank a few onager or ballista shots at the defenders in the town square.