Active Rebels Project

[Resurrection]

Hi all,

Ideas behind this is quiet simple. Getting rid of tedious passive rebels, who just wait for being conquered by anyone (usually human player)

There are several tasks to do regarding this:

1) Changing descr_campaign_db.xml value <min_turn_keep_rebel_garrison int="999"/> to 1 or so. Rebels should be able to get out of settlement.

2) In export_descr_buildings.txt allowing rebels to build up cities and castles. This one is very time consuming as it is necessary to change by hand almost everything... (adding word "slave" to faction_required)

3) In export_descr_units.txt allowing rebels to recruit units, again almost all of them.

4) Modify slaves income in descr_strat.txt and campaign_script.txt

5) OPTIONAL: changing starting positions to be really historically accurate including the bad political situations and effectively simulating civil wars etc. at the beginning of the game.

Issues yet to be solved

1) Files regarding diplomacy and probably even campaign_script.txt would have to be changed as several changes would be most likely necessary to make rebels active at all (besides above mentioned). Especially since rebels are in war with everyone, this might be pretty tough...

2) Find an easy way how to prevent recruiting/building units/settlements everywhere. Rebels are everywhere, but they should not be able to build/recruit everything everywhere. I am not aware much of current system, but I doubt there are already done any restrictions regarding this (apart distribution to factions). I speak mainly about restricting units and certain building to certain regions only.

So?
My question is: Anyone interested?

Since I do not have currently much time for this, I throw this out as an idea. So if you are interested or you have some ideas which might help, you are welcome to participate!

[NoahShepherd]

I think its a great idea. I'm currently working working on an AOR system for SS which should work fine to only allow them to recruit certain units in certain regions only.

I have yet to edit the EDB for my mod yet, but when I do I would be glad to add the slave faction to the buildings. I'm also planning on modifying the rebel and merc skins in the game to remove the ugly brown and gray and replace with more appropriate colors and schemes.

As far as the other files that need editing, I'm willing to give them a shot. I've never messed with them before, but I wouldn't mind learning something new.

I may be new to modding but I'm definitely willing to learn. PM me if there is anything you need. I'll see what I can do.

[Tsarsies]

I think its a great idea and i would like to see it implimented.

I would suggest not allowing the slaves to build some buildings. There is no need for the slaves to have diplomats, merchants etc. Nor would the slave faction need education buildings etc. Just give them access to militaristic buildings and wall upgrades.

[Byg]

Nice idea. Lots of work there.

[The Lionheart]

Resurrection:

Good idea. I'm willing to help, and sent you a PM with the details.

[Gorrrrrn]

RE OP

how does the work with quark's minor_factions that he's developing?

as for buildings - let 'em build as much as they like I says.

(we might need to be careful that if the rebels are too good they might achieve a victory due perhaps to an AI faction going rebel all at once, especially in the first few turns. so adjust their VCs?)

[wolfslayer]

Rebels can build whatever units the faction_creator of a settlement owns.

If Jerusalem owns Nicosia and Jerusalem, and it loses it's leaders and goes rebel, the rebels can create slave versions of only Byzantine units in Nicosia and only Egyptians units in Jerusalem, as long is everything is enabled in EDB, EDU and MDB.

The modeldb is the hardest part..

[Point Blank]

If its workable and won't take a huge amount of work I would be happy to integrate this into Real Recruitment.

[Resurrection]

Rebels can build whatever units the faction_creator of a settlement owns.

If Jerusalem owns Nicosia and Jerusalem, and it loses it's leaders and goes rebel, the rebels can create slave versions of only Byzantine units in Nicosia and only Egyptians units in Jerusalem, as long is everything is enabled in EDB, EDU and MDB.

The modeldb is the hardest part..

It's interesting. If it is so, it might save a lot of work... of course modeldb can be a problem, but we will look into that. I am grateful for this knowledge!

If its workable and won't take a huge amount of work I would be happy to integrate this into Real Recruitment.

I have currently two other people helping me with it - NoahSheperd and The Lionheart. We agreed with Noah to use his EDU and EDB to start with. Lionheart is undertaking some tests regarding slave faction behaviour when unstucked and solving the money problem. Noah also uses already your RR in his EDU. BUT if what wolfslayer says is truth, then it would not be necessary to create custom EDU for this mod and thus allowing it's real broad use with many other mods. Anyways, EDB still needs to be changed to allow rebels to build.


Thanks for feedback to everyone!

[wolfslayer]

BUT if what wolfslayer says is truth, then it would not be necessary to create custom EDU for this mod and thus allowing it's real broad use with many other mods.

Just to clarify,

When a slave sub_faction build units in a settlement, it can only be the units of the faction_creator, but they must be slave entries in the modelDB and non mercenary_unit slave entries in the EDU.

So there is no interchanging with other mods.

It doesn't take much looking to see that SS6 models and textures are a very confusing mix of Ornamentum and other models and skins that have little in common with any other mod.

The campaign_ai_db is probably the most important part for starters, instructing the slave AI to build up these units while defending it's settlements.

[Gnostiko]

If its workable and won't take a huge amount of work I would be happy to integrate this into Real Recruitment.

Hells yeah to that!

[Galain_Ironhide]

I like this idea, expecially adding to RR (only just begun using RR so definately no expert at it - don't pretend to be either!) however you do not want to cause imbalance to the game with the Rebels killing off factions left right and centre - I'm sure this what you all have in mind anyhow .

But it would be great if an insurgence of rebels could suddenly spawn on your lands and instinctively attack/seige you as well as be able to protect itself within its own home lands. Good luck with it.

[cherryfunk]

This is an excellent idea! In fact, this should be wrapped up into the main mod I think -- there is no downside to stronger rebels!

[Grass_Watcher]

The Rebels can already do all of this if you give them a lot of cash in the kings purse. Except for the attacking thing.

[Tsarsies]

Nice to see this moving along. I am interested to see how it all pans out in the end. If you decide to use my garrison script with it then it will be easy to set up to fire for slave owned settlements aswell. Just let me know ...

[Gorrrrrn]

Well in my current SS6.1 campaign the rebels have taken Antioch (formerly KoJ I believe)

They have a full stack in there and are recruiting extras (I know this because they appear on the bridge to the north) which attack anyone who goes near the place - currently the Seljuks, Byzzies and KoJ are neighbours.

As they are rebel I presume they don't have to worry about religion and public order. So they won't be building religious buildings and civic improvements?

[wolfslayer]

I let the AI run 40 turns and checked the rebels, they don't build any agents, the only the had were spawned and converted heretic priests.

You can take control of them and make them build some agents like spys and assassins, and they will use them, but they won't build on their own as far as I can tell, it might take running some more turns to confirm

So a ruthless military profile in descr_strat would probably be best for them, like fortified ghengis or subotai.

[Resurrection]

Hi folks,

I recently ran few tests and discovered something VERY interesting.

I used default SS6.1 with some two minor tweak only.

1) Allow AI slave to abandon settlement
2) Give AI slave tons of cash

When I used default SS6.1 layout of settlements, where rebels own more then half of map, they did not build anything. Nor buildings, nor units.

But when I used my HASP, where rebels own just few settlements (around 6), then they simply build up their settlements AND recruited units as well.

That all without using any custom EDU nor EDB. This confirms what wolfslayer posted about this issue. Basically rebels are allowed to build anything (units AND buildings) what can do faction_creator in descr_strat.txt.

This removes a lot of work regarding ARP, but apparently another huge issue appeared and I am completely clueless how to solve it. Tons of cash simply does not help. The question is:

How to help slave AI to manage so huge and widespread empire?

They seem to be somehow stucked by having so many provinces all over the world.

PS. Thx to Lionheart and NoahSheperd for help.

EDIT: Thanks a lot wolfslayer, your info is invaluable! As for the agents, I believe that slave faction does not really need them... Altough I might look at it once the current issue is solved. I bet though that agents have something to do with their limits and global setting then with slave faction itself.

[wolfslayer]

My test with stock number of settlements they definitely were building, but they need a decent set of instructions in campaign_ai_db, especially build_up instructions to a fairly high ratio before attacking anyone.

[Resurrection]

My test with stock number of settlements they definitely were building, but they need a decent set of instructions in campaign_ai_db, especially build_up instructions to a fairly high ratio before attacking anyone.

I assumed as much. But it's very chaotic, somewhat rare and I did not see any recruiting with stock settlements layout. Campaing_ai_db is now obviously the main file as they completely lack their own profile.