A little observation

[century x]

In my roman campaign. I have been at war since the start of the game. Except for a 10 year period of peace. But ever since I started the war with Gaul I have been taking notes and making observations on some of the units in their armies. I would like to point out the one unit that ALWAYS I REPEAT ALWAYS in every battle where ever they are in a line or in a city always slaughter my units. Its the Belgae swordsmen. In my recent taking of a city. I had to use 6 cohorts to destroy one unit of them.
Take a look



As you can see it is an utter slaughter of the romans. I understand that these are Gauls and they fight to the death but there is a limit. This was just a local city with a family member in it who by this point I killed in front of that unit. There MORALE is is better in my opinion then other elite units in the game. I fought macedon's elite, Greece's elite, Carthage's elite, Egypt's elite, GERMANS's Elite, iberia's elite, Epirus elite etc and none of them come close to these little guys.

So what I'm saying here is not to critaize(can't spell) you all know i'm as loyal to this mod than any other person, but why are these guys Morale so HIGH?

I post this here in the dev thread because I didn't want to hear crap from other members saying there favorite factions elite unit is the best. Here I can get real answers.

Thank you

[The10thLegion]

The only thing I can tell you from my expierience (I'm not as expierienced as DVK or almost everyone here) is that alot of times some units will slaughter too much. Thats my only complaint. I think maybe a stat decrease could help alot. But hey, the whole game is great, maybe I'm just a whiner.
-Dark Waters
Is it really so dark?

[century x]

I' am a very experience RS player. I have been playing this mod since the start so I know how to win in this game. But Jesus man, every legion I have in gaul right now is at 50 percent strength or lower. And its mainly due to these guys.

[The10thLegion]

Well this may just be tactics info, but i always reduce this by saving my missile units and using them to kill the elites. But they definetly aren't as bad as the elephants in SPQR, or the SPartans

[century x]

Missles hit your own troops and make the situation worse.

[The10thLegion]

My suggestion then would to tone down the defence and attack of the units

[dvk901]

Belgae Milnah Swordsmen:

type gaul armored swordsmen
dictionary barb_warguard_gaul ; Chosen Swordsmen
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Heavy_1
soldier barb_warguard, 60, 0, 2
officer barb_standard
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, very_hardy, warcry
formation 1.2, 1.2, 2.2, 2.2, 6, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 43, 10, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.5
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 10, 45, 7, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 2, flesh
stat_heat 5
stat_ground 0,-2,0,2
stat_mental 28, impetuous, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 0, 700, 330, 70, 110, 280
ownership gauls

Roman Principe:

type roman princeps
dictionary roman_principes ; Principes italy only; (Republican Legion I)
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Heavy_1
soldier roman_principes, 50, 0, 2.3
officer roman_early_centurion
officer roman_standard
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, very_hardy
formation 1.1, 1.1, 2.1, 2.1, 5, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 25, 2, pilum, 45, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 0 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec,thrown ap
stat_sec 27, 16, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 ,0.5
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 12, 45, 10, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 4, -2, -2, -2
stat_mental 29, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 35
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 0, 500, 310, 50, 50, 200
ownership romans_brutii

Roman Legionary:

type legio ix hispana ;Early Legion
dictionary legio_ix_hispana ; Legionary Cohort
category infantry ;before 41 BC to before 160, Augustus
class heavy
voice_type Medium_1
soldier legio_ix_hispana, 50, 0, 3.2
officer roman_centurion
officer roman_standard10
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, very_hardy, frighten_foot
formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, square, testudo
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 25, 2, pilum, 45, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 0 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec,thrown ap
stat_sec 28, 18, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, sword, 0 ,0.5
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 14, 45, 10, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 2, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 4, -2, -2, -2
stat_mental 28, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 35
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 0, 850, 300, 70, 70, 210
ownership romans_brutii

Note that the 'defense' of the Roman units is higher, offense is lower, and the morale is basically the same. My observation is that to handle this Celtic unit the greatest advantage the Roman units have is their pila. This Celtic unit is impetuous and tends to charge into the lines by itself (I have seen this many times) leaving their brothers behind. A nice peppering of pila will severely reduce their numbers, and then they will fall back. That's how I handle them anyway. Guess what I'm saying is, if I see this unit in one of their armies, I plan ahead how to handle them.

I am not defending the stats as they are in RS1.5, because they are a bit whacky at times, and hopefully RS2 will be better if we can get LT1956 to do the stats. (He said he would) I'm just saying that in RS1.5 you have to be aware of the composition of the opponents armies and plan ahead a little in order to handle some of these units. I have personally experienced your pain, having lost whole armies to these bastards when I tried to take a city and didn't realize there were a bunch of these guys in there.

[cherryfunk]

The Belgae has nearly double the attack of the Principes, that seems a bit too high...

[century x]

Well the good thing is my war with Gaul is ending soon. I don't have to fight these guys no more. I understand the pila is the key to victory against these guys but when i'm in a city I can't form a line quick enough to throw them.

I'am always fully aware of the army compositions of the enemy and take some form of defense. I guess I just got to prepare more

[swhunter]

Yes the best defense is defense. When at the start of the battle
I find when using Romans wait for the enemy to tire to be less organized
and the enemy first to draw loss instead of the Romans at first.
The plia and javelin is the best weapons. It goes through their lines.
Archers will take out a few at a time for long distance fighting. I would rather have more javelineers which will stop anything!
horses , heavy armour , chariots. Anyhow it works for me .

[century x]

95 percent of the time I let the enemy come to me.

Thank the gods I didn't go to war in Gaul with Hastati based legions. They would have been all killed.

[swhunter]

Yes i found i lost two legions of the republican earyer type Romans.
When i received the better trained troops after the reforms with more experiance .
Then it was a different story..

[century x]

Well thanks DVk for pointing out the stats of these units. I guess I just learned the hard way that the Gauls won't give up a city even though there is only one man in a unit.

[dvk901]

The Germans are even worse.

[century x]

And guess who I' am fighting next.

My poor legions are already at the Rhine river. There not going to be crossing that river for a longggggggggg time.

[The10thLegion]

i think its good the Germans are that way. The Romans barely crossed the Rhine, and when they did there was hell to pay for it

[century x]

Well I don't want to make another thread and spam up these forums. We have greek fanatics running around the RS Forum constantly putting down the romans. They have absoultely no respect for the romans. There so bias against them. I been trying to change there point of view and not be bias against a whole society.

I' am this close to telling them all stop playing this mod. There upset that the romans can defeat a phalanx. THIS IS A ROMAN MOD Anyway. No one listens to me so maybe one of you higher ups can explain that there can't be bias against a whole people if you wnat to have arguments. There judgement is clouded with GREEK HEroic battles and the spartans 300 which for most of these people they get there whole history of Greece from.

They also think the romans did nothing. NOTHING In there entire stand of history.

[aja5191]

Are you being serious?

[century x]

Well not really I just wanted to vent out some steam. I'm sorry I been studying history my whole life and when 20 people say the romans did nothing it just angers me a little.

I'm watching the monthy python marathon on BBCA so its relaxing me

[The10thLegion]

was that directed at me?
I love the Romans.
I just know that they had a hard struggle with Germany