Crewe for the Conservatives

[The Super Pope]

The Conservative Party has won the crucial by-election in Crewe and Nantwhich with 49% of the vote. The turnout was 58%, high for a by-election. This is the first time the Conservatives have had a by-election gain since 1982, and may be the death-knell for Gordon Brown.

Results in full:
Edward Timpson (Con) 20,539 (49.49%, 16.93% increase on 2005 share of vote)
Tamsin Dunwoody (Lab) 12,679 (30.55%, -18.29%)
Elizabeth Shenton (Lib Dem) 6,040 (14.55%, -4.03%)
Mike Nattrass (UKIP) 922 (2.22%)
Robert Smith (Green) 359 (0.87%)
David Roberts (Eng Dem) 275 (0.66%)
The Flying Brick (Monster Raving Loony) 236 (0.57%)
Mark Walklate (Ind) 217 (0.52%)
Paul Thorogood (Cut Tax on Diesel and Petrol) 118 (0.28%)
Gemma Garrett (Ind) 113 (0.27%)

[Shaun]

One can hope.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Miliband has to go for a leadership battle if they want to keep the science-hating butt munchers out.

[Syron]

Miliband has to go for a leadership battle if they want to keep the science-hating butt munchers out.

That's the thing though. No senior Labour politician with hopes of becoming Prime Minister will take the job at the moment, It's a poison chalice. It seems highly likely that no matter who is at the top in the Labour party they are heading towards a crushing defeat. That means any new leader will likely be in opposition for most of his time only to be replaced before an election they might win.


Science hating? I think you are confused, in general the Tories have been far more pro-science than Labour ever has. One small issue about hybrid embryo's does not make the Tories "science-hating" by any stretch of the imagination.

[Каие]

Science hating? I think you are confused, in general the Tories have been far more pro-science than Labour ever has. One small issue about hybrid embryo's does not make the Tories "science-hating" by any stretch of the imagination.

Not at all, they voted majority against every single measure of the bills.
Check here for the full thing.

1. Permit the licensing of human/animal admixed embryos
Con: against (54%)
Lab: for (78%)
LDem: for (73%)

2. Permit the creation of true hybrids
Con: against (80%)
Lab: for (77%)
LDem: for (53%)

3. Permit genetically engineered hybrids
Con: against (62%)
Lab: for (78%)
LDem: for (63%)

4. Permit embryo sex selection to prevent the wider range of diseases
Con: against (76%)
Lab: for (91%)
LDem: for (68%)

5. Permit genetic testing to select saviour siblings
Con: against (57%)
Lab: for (81%)
LDem: for (78%)

6. Permit saviour siblings in the wider range of cases
Con: against (77%)
Lab: for (81%)
LDem: for (59%)

AVERAGE VOTES CAST IN FAVOUR OF RESEARCH
Con: against (68%)
Lab: for (81%)
LDem: for (66%)

[Syron]

@ ЯoMe kb8

As i said,

Science hating? I think you are confused, in general the Tories have been far more pro-science than Labour ever has. One small issue about hybrid embryo's does not make the Tories "science-hating" by any stretch of the imagination.

Hybrid embryo's =/= all of science by a long stretch.

Most of those measures have nothing to do with basic science but ethical issues like "Saviour Siblings" and "Embryo sex-selection". As a science student myself i agree with the Tory position on those.


Interesting how your source labels all the figures except the Tories as "percentage for" though......

A new face, a new campaign could mean a new... New Labour. Brown is the figurehead and no-one likes Brown. Its all about appeal and Miliband has it. He has to fight for the leadership if Labour doesn't get dragged down with Brown.

I don't think there is any real possibility that Labour can be saved. And i for one do not think people's dissatisfaction with Labour is due to Gordon Brown, simply because of the simple lack of decision making on his part, good or bad. I'm skeptical that any shrewd Labour politician will throw themselves into being a contender for leader anytime soon.

Any recent sources?

Of what? Do you want me to go into Labour's complete indifference to the current STFC funding crisis?

[Каие]

@ ЯoMe kb8
As i said,
Hybrid embryo's =/= all of science by a long stretch.
Most of those measures have nothing to do with basic science but ethical issues like "Saviour Siblings" and "Embryo sex-selection". As a science student myself i agree with the Tory position on those.

Firstly its research its an eco of when some other authority held back research and knowledge in the field of medical science.

No one said they are anti science that would make them cavemen, they are anti-scientific advancement as they are too afraid or deluded by propaganda of walking cowmen, and the false words of the catholic church.

Interesting how your source labels all the figures except the Tories as "percentage for" though......

its not difficult to find out what the percentage for is.
100 - Percentage against.

And the reason for that is because in every topic the majority voted against, while the other two parties voted for. So they put the majority to show the stark contrasts.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

That's the thing though. No senior Labour politician with hopes of becoming Prime Minister will take the job at the moment, It's a poison chalice. It seems highly likely that no matter who is at the top in the Labour party they are heading towards a crushing defeat. That means any new leader will likely be in opposition for most of his time only to be replaced before an election they might win.

A new face, a new campaign could mean a new... New Labour. Brown is the figurehead and no-one likes Brown. Its all about appeal and Miliband has it. He has to fight for the leadership if Labour doesn't get dragged down with Brown.

Science hating? I think you are confused, in general the Tories have been far more pro-science than Labour ever has. One small issue about hybrid embryo's does not make the Tories "science-hating" by any stretch of the imagination.

Any recent sources?

[Syron]

Firstly its research its an eco of when some other authority held back research and knowledge in the field of medical science.

Oh bollocks is it. As i have said, i'm totally anti-religion and yet i disagree with Saviour Siblings and Sex Selection of Embryo's too.

No one said they are anti science that would make them cavemen,

Miliband has to go for a leadership battle if they want to keep the science-hating butt munchers out.

hmmm :hmmm:

they are anti-scientific advancement as they are too afraid or deluded by propaganda of walking cowmen, and the false words of the catholic church.

Of course, because most Tories are catholics? IIRC there seem to be plenty of catholic Labour politicians who were "deluded by propaganda from the catholic church". Tory views have nothing to do with the catholics and what they say.

And i say it again, being against hybrid embryo's is not anti-scientific advancement in general. It's one issue and it's not representative of either sides record regarding science.

And the reason for that is because in every topic the majority voted against, while the other two parties voted for. So they put the majority to show the stark contrasts.

That doesn't make sense though. It would show more contrast if all the figures were percentage for and the Tories percentages were low. What is the source?

[Каие]

Oh bollocks is it. As i have said, i'm totally anti-religion and yet i disagree with Saviour Siblings and Sex Selection of Embryo's too.

Permit embryo sex selection to prevent the wider range of diseases
Thats the kind of distortion i'm talking about.

hmmm :hmmm:

You;re anti Immigration but you don;t hate them.
QED...that is irrelevant. As i said no one said they hate are anti science.

Of course, because most Tories are catholics? IIRC there seem to be plenty of catholic Labour politicians who were "deluded by propaganda from the catholic church". Tory views have nothing to do with the catholics and what they say.

Didn;t say they were catholic or majority catholic.

But now you mention it its not hard to make the link between Christianity and Conservatives, in Europe the the Conservative parties are called 'Christian Democrat' Parties. But there must be some reason why the majority of conservatives on every single aspect voted against and the Liberals and labour voted for, whereas also the ones within the Labour party even cabinet minsters who were catholic voted against.

And i say it again, being against hybrid embryo's is not anti-scientific advancement in general. It's one issue and it's not representative of either sides record regarding science.

Like i said anyone who values medicine and its advancement in the face of contemporary ailments such HIV, Aids, and Cancer will have to move on and research new means and expand our knowledge, science is one place where being conservative is not required, one must be progressive as it is the nature of both Medicine and science.

That doesn't make sense though. It would show more contrast if all the figures were percentage for and the Tories percentages were low. What is the source?

Its not my source, its Shyams ill fish it out for you.
Whats your point about the results anyway?

[mongrel]

I do not think the average Briton cares that much about embryos and what to do with them. They do care about whether the nation is run fairly, competently and justly. Clearly a majority of people believe that is not the case and New Labour has done nothing of late to disprove that, quite the contrary.

[LoZz]

Permit embryo sex selection to prevent the wider range of diseases
Thats the kind of distortion i'm talking about.

bad idea, i disagree with designer babies. gender selection is part of that. some, how should i put this... cultural groups who missed feminism in the uk will just pick boys and die out within a few decades

true story. my local hospital will not tell you the gender of your baby (even if you ask) when you have a scan because in the past when they did, these "cultural" groups aborted the babies if they where girls. its common now in quite alot of hospitals where said groups are.

[Shaun]

bad idea, i disagree with designer babies. gender selection is part of that. some, how should i put this... cultural groups who missed feminism in the uk will just pick boys and die out within a few decades

true story. my local hospital will not tell you the gender of your baby (even if you ask) when you have a scan because in the past when they did, these "cultural" groups aborted the babies if they where girls. its common now in quite alot of hospitals where said groups are.

Source that this is common, and if it really is, then I can hardly see why a culture that is so backward as to automatically abort a female foetus dying out is a bad thing.

[mongrel]

bad idea, i disagree with designer babies. gender selection is part of that. some, how should i put this... cultural groups who missed feminism in the uk will just pick boys and die out within a few decades

true story. my local hospital will not tell you the gender of your baby (even if you ask) when you have a scan because in the past when they did, these "cultural" groups aborted the babies if they where girls. its common now in quite alot of hospitals where said groups are.

Noting the preponderance of females of a "certain cultural group" in the building where I work, and by observing the local population of "certain cultural groups" whilst shopping , I can see no obvious evidence of any disparity in numbers between the sexes. Are you suggesting that gender selective abortion is now available in the UK?

But anyway, back to the issues. People are voting Conservative because New Labour sucks and Gordon is a moron. It really is so simple, I am surprised that the media have only just got to grips with these self-evident truths.

[Cluny the Scourge]

bad idea, i disagree with designer babies. gender selection is part of that. some, how should i put this... cultural groups who missed feminism in the uk will just pick boys and die out within a few decades

true story. my local hospital will not tell you the gender of your baby (even if you ask) when you have a scan because in the past when they did, these "cultural" groups aborted the babies if they where girls. its common now in quite alot of hospitals where said groups are.

What you are proposing is that everyone in the country should be denied the benefits of this technology because of the behaviour of ignorant minority groups.

I disagree with you entirely. If these groups in the UK - we seem to be tip-toeing around who they are; I assume we're mostly talking about people from rural Pakistan and other places in the middle-East - choose to destroy themselves through their own woman-hating folly then that is their business. What does it have to do with anyone else?

In fact, introducing sex-selection would be an excellent educative tool to bring about reform in the culture of these groups. There's nothing like facing destruction to concentrate the mind on what really matters.

Or even better, it would facilitate integration. If there aren't enough women to go around then their mostly-male population would have no choice but to marry outside their little cultural enclaves and thus the sharp divide that fosters radicalism would be eroded into nothing.

"Designer-babies" are the future. Once you have accepted that there is nothing morally wrong with destroying or altering embryos, there is no acceptable justification for denying people the right to do so for any reason they wish. Killing an embryo is either murder or it isn't. There is no middle ground for fudged, lukewarm, cautious, fair-weather types to occupy.

What is wrong with people deciding what their child looks like? How does it harm anyone else?

It doesn't.

[Каие]

Its absolutely absurd that people are voting Tory because of the 10p tax row, i am infuriated that Labour did that but they stole it from the Conservatives! It was a Tory policy and they haven't said in any way what they would do to fix and haven;t supported the governments lame attempt at fixing it.

The Tories are just exploiting the poor and ignorant once again for their own demagoguery and opportunist agenda. Whats needed is a change of leadership and direction not a change of government the Conservatives will no way solve the economic problems they have a horrible record and are morally unable to help poor people. All i'm going to do is wait for time when i can say i told you so.

[Shaun]

The Tories are just exploiting the poor and ignorant once again for their own demagoguery and opportunist agenda. Whats needed is a change of leadership and direction not a change of government the Conservatives will no way solve the economic problems they have a horrible record and are morally unable to help poor people. All i'm going to do is wait for time when i can say i told you so.

That's because the current economic problems originated in America and no British government can fix them. However, we are seriously pissed off at the high taxes, big brother, red tape, excessive legislation and political correctness that is synonymous with New Labour.

[Каие]

That's because the current economic problems originated in America and no British government can fix them. However, we are seriously pissed off at the high taxes, big brother, red tape, excessive legislation and political correctness that is synonymous with New Labour.

Me too but they are not the solution people aren't looking to what they will do becasue they haven't got a plan and don;t know what to do, but they are being misled, every time i see a Conservative talking about the local elections or the crewe by election they keep mentioning the 10p band, and it is hilarious as its their policy which they have made no signs or plans to either correct or reinstate, they are not going to do any thing about it as they wanted it but are using to to destroy labour.

Its genius,

[The Super Pope]

^^Yes, how dare the Conservatives question human-animal hybrids. If they don't raise these issues, they wouldn't be representing the people and wouldn't be doing their jobs. Just because you support something doesn't mean the other 60 million of us do too

^Outdated left wing propaganda "The conservatives only care about the rich". What exactly has labour done for the poor, other than increase their taxes and the likelihood of them facing violent crime?

[Каие]

Im sick of the 'new' Labour, of Brown and Blair but the Tories are not the solution.

^^Yes, how dare the Conservatives question human-animal hybrids. If they don't raise these issues, they wouldn't be representing the people and wouldn't be doing their jobs. Just because you support something doesn't mean the other 60 million of us do too

There are no Animal-Human hybrids, it was propaganda spread to teh ignorant it si impossible to produce a half man-half animal. Join teh Hybrid thread and you;ll see.

^Outdated left wing propaganda "The conservatives only care about the rich". What exactly has labour done for the poor, other than increase their taxes and the likelihood of them facing violent crime?

They sure haven't moved on.
Did you know its Tory policy to scrap the upper 40p tax band?
Tax cuts my ass.