Rebels?

**bthizle1** · May 22, 2008, 03:34 PM

Any thought about perhaps adding one or two rebel factions into RS2? I love how you've already added the "free peoples" faction, it's just that they represent MANY peoples and I hate how the AI is always allying with them.... The Romans were notorious for their epic civil wars, perhaps bringing back the loyalty system and creating just a Roman rebel faction would help to show this in game?
Just a thought.....

**rory o'kane** · May 22, 2008, 03:56 PM

well, in RS 2.0, there will be Free People (the slave faction as was), as well as Free Greeks and Free Barbarians!

**swhunter** · May 22, 2008, 06:39 PM

Yeah isn't that enough rebels for you ?

I am telling you as you build your empire you will be happy if there's less when the enemy comes on you.
1. Free independent states.
2.Slave states
3 Free Greek war states.
4. Barbarian Free war states.
Plus your Enemy factions !

**Squid** · May 22, 2008, 08:20 PM

There are only three "Free People" factions:

1. Slave Faction
2. Free Greeks
3. Free Barbarians

**swhunter** · May 22, 2008, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by SquidSK

There are only three "Free People" factions:

1. Slave Faction
2. Free Greeks
3. Free Barbarians

That is right.

No booting out other factions.
The Free states are the same thing.

having Free Greek and Barbarian .
we truly just have two non playable factions.
1. Slave faction
2. Free states faction . just depends the locations of these being Free Greeks or Barbarians.
Or has it been changed squid ?

**bthizle1** · May 22, 2008, 10:21 PM

So they won't all three of em be depicted as just one or two factions? Might I ask which current faction is getting the boot in order to make room for one of em?

**rory o'kane** · May 23, 2008, 04:30 AM

we have 3 non playable factions... Free Peoples (slaves), Free Greeks, and Free Barbarians
Syracuse, Epiros and the Bosphorans are getting the boot anyways, as the first two had become insignificant by 218 B.C., which is RS 2.0's start date
In total, the playable factions are...
1. Rome (unified Rome, 1 faction, no senate)
2. Carthage
3. Macedon
4. Sparta
5. Pergammon (this will be our swap faction - we'll release patches to replace it with the Bosphorans or Syracuse if the player wants)
6. Pontus
7. Iberians (Spain)
8. Celtic Faction #1:Avernii
9. Celtic Faction #2: Belgae
10. Celtic Faction #3: Top Secret
11. German Faction: Top Secret
12. Scythia
13. Sarmatia
14. The Getae
15. The Seleucids
16. Ptolemaics
17. Armenia
18. Parthia
(with the senate removed, you have the option for 21 factions, so we've got the 3 Free People factions on top of those).
That's right, isn't it, Squid?

**century x** · May 23, 2008, 08:20 AM

Now thats what i'm talking about

**bthizle1** · May 23, 2008, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by rory o'kane

we have 3 non playable factions... Free Peoples (slaves), Free Greeks, and Free Barbarians
Syracuse, Epiros and the Bosphorans are getting the boot anyways, as the first two had become insignificant by 218 B.C., which is RS 2.0's start date
In total, the playable factions are...
1. Rome (unified Rome, 1 faction, no senate)
2. Carthage
3. Macedon
4. Sparta
5. Pergammon (this will be our swap faction - we'll release patches to replace it with the Bosphorans or Syracuse if the player wants)
6. Pontus
7. Iberians (Spain)
8. Celtic Faction #1:Avernii
9. Celtic Faction #2: Belgae
10. Celtic Faction #3: Top Secret
11. German Faction: Top Secret
12. Scythia
13. Sarmatia
14. The Getae
15. The Seleucids
16. Ptolemaics
17. Armenia
18. Parthia
(with the senate removed, you have the option for 21 factions, so we've got the 3 Free People factions on top of those).
That's right, isn't it, Squid?

I really like that list of factions, but I must say I am pretty disappointed that you are making the Spartans, but not the Athenians. They were easily just as influential/powerful if not more. I do realize that by 218 BC they were not much compared to what they once were, but still had just as much an influence over Greece as the Spartans did. The Athenians even supported the Romans against the Macedonians which lead to Rome giving them money etc..., up until 86 BC when their rebellion lead to the Romans under command of Sulla to siege the city. Before that, while under Macedonian rule they even attempted at leading many different rebellions, none successfully, but still isn't that up to us to change in RS?

I do realize that Sparta was perhaps the only Greek city not to join the League of Corinth under Macedonian control, but that was around 338 BC, long before the start of this mod. In 272 Sparta even became a dependency of Macedon after being defeated by Pyrros, however he did not take the city. The Athenians even took part in a few alliance against the Macedonians, while the Spartans simply fought the Epirots, lost and then lost again in 222 BC to the Tegae resulting in their king fleeing to Egypt.

As you can see, Athens was still just as powerful if not more powerful in 218 BC as Sparta was.

Don't get me wrong, I'd probably rather play as the Spartans, just for fun, but you cannot claim they are present over the Athenians because they were more powerful or had more influence at the start of this mod, because clearly Athens did. (Although even their power/influence was minor)

**swhunter** · May 23, 2008, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by bthizle1

I really like that list of factions, but I must say I am pretty disappointed that you are making the Spartans, but not the Athenians. They were easily just as influential/powerful if not more. I do realize that by 218 BC they were not much compared to what they once were, but still had just as much an influence over Greece as the Spartans did. The Athenians even supported the Romans against the Macedonians which lead to Rome giving them money etc..., up until 86 BC when their rebellion lead to the Romans under command of Sulla to siege the city. Before that, while under Macedonian rule they even attempted at leading many different rebellions, none successfully, but still isn't that up to us to change in RS?

I do realize that Sparta was perhaps the only Greek city not to join the League of Corinth under Macedonian control, but that was around 338 BC, long before the start of this mod. In 272 Sparta even became a dependency of Macedon after being defeated by Pyrros, however he did not take the city. The Athenians even took part in a few alliance against the Macedonians, while the Spartans simply fought the Epirots, lost and then lost again in 222 BC to the Tegae resulting in their king fleeing to Egypt.

As you can see, Athens was still just as powerful if not more powerful in 218 BC as Sparta was.

Don't get me wrong, I'd probably rather play as the Spartans, just for fun, but you cannot claim they are present over the Athenians because they were more powerful or had more influence at the start of this mod, because clearly Athens did. (Although even their power/influence was minor)

I believe there will be a swap faction Athens.
But not when the mod comes out right away.

**HMonk** · May 23, 2008, 08:48 AM

Yes-sir-re-bob, buddy-ro

**Squid** · May 23, 2008, 10:26 AM

Except Sparta will be the swap faction not Pergamum, as sparta was a minor player at the time, as opposed to Pergamum who was a major power in Asia minor, and all swap factions will be minor players we'll be including (e.g. Bosporans, Syracause, etc).

As mentioned above, RS1.5 only uses 20 factions, so the 21st faction slot (by removing the senate completely) is essentially being given to the third free people faction.

**rory o'kane** · May 23, 2008, 12:02 PM

when was it decided that sparta was gonna be the swap faction? i thought there was gonna be a poll on this?

**Squid** · May 23, 2008, 12:36 PM

When dvk found out the reason for not using Sparta as a swap faction was no longer valid (see the discussion started by Cherry on the issue in the dev forum). The general consensus was that Sparta would be the default "swap faction" so if people wanted it, it was there otherwise they could switch it with whichever other swap faction they wanted. The main reasoning was Pergamamum was a major power at the time, while Sparta was a backwater power on its way out, so having Pergamum as a permanent faction made more sense, espcially with the lineup of other factions that are planned. Having reread the thread, I believe you even agreed with it.

**swhunter** · May 23, 2008, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by SquidSK

When dvk found out the reason for not using Sparta as a swap faction was no longer valid (see the discussion started by Cherry on the issue in the dev forum). The general consensus was that Sparta would be the default "swap faction" so if people wanted it, it was there otherwise they could switch it with whichever other swap faction they wanted. The main reasoning was Pergamamum was a major power at the time, while Sparta was a backwater power on its way out, so having Pergamum as a permanent faction made more sense, espcially with the lineup of other factions that are planned. Having reread the thread, I believe you even agreed with it.

I must missed that meeting squid , since Sparta was at first a swap faction then changed back . Now its back to being a Swap ?
Then when RS2 is out we should have at least one swap faction Sparta correct ?

**Snake_Plisskin** · May 23, 2008, 02:03 PM

so there's no plans for a rebel roman swap faction ?? is it due to the rtw engine needing certain aspects of rtw bi ??

As i believe that would be the one missing aspect in RS unless you could add some minor scripts including some roman rebellion periods creating a few large rebel legion armies, eg around the time of Gauis Julius Caesar and Octavius for example.

**Sandrus Castus** · May 23, 2008, 02:09 PM

Can you make it impossible to ally with the Rebel Factions? It's not quite realistic a faction would ally with a bunch of free cities spread over the whole known world.