13 dead in South Africa riots

[Aziel]

13 dead in South Africa riots

From correspondents in Johannesburg
May 19, 2008 06:29 pm
Article from: Agence France-Presse

ANOTHER foreigner has been killed in South Africa as a wave of xenophobic violence spreads across Johannesburg, bringing the weekend death toll to 13, police said today.

"Last night (Sunday) was relatively quiet compared to previous nights. We had a few incidents, one murder was reported from Alexandra. The body was found with bullet wounds," police spokesman Govindsamy Mariemuthoo told AFP.

He said police from around the country's financial capital would meet today to collate information from the weekend attacks in townships and the downtown area.

Some 250 people had been arrested during the attacks, including those committing offences such as looting which Mr Mariemuthoo said were "pure criminal activities".

The violence against foreigners, who are accused by many South Africans of depriving locals of jobs and committing crime, has spread across townships since the beginning of last week.

Wielding guns and machetes, marauding mobs have launched attacks on foreigners from neighbouring countries such as Zimbabwe and Mozambique.
Yesterday an immigrant died after being covered with his own blankets and set alight. The gruesome image of the human fireball was captured on the front-page of several South African papers today.

President Thabo Mbeki and leader of the ruling African National Congress Jacob Zuma have both strongly condemned the attacks.

The bulk of the immigrants who have flooded South Africa in recent years are from Zimbabwe, with an estimated three million having fled the economic meltdown and political crisis in their homeland.

Link

Anti-foreigner violence spreads in South Africa

JOHANNESBURG (Reuters) - A wave of xenophobic attacks spread through South African townships on Monday and mobs beat foreigners and set some ablaze in scenes reminiscent of apartheid era violence.

Two people were killed and more than two dozen shacks were torched in the Tembisa township near Johannesburg, the South African Broadcasting Corp. said. Police, struggling to restore order, said at least 13 people were killed over the weekend.

Immigrants from African neighbors are accused by many in the townships, among South Africa's poorest areas, of taking jobs and fuelling the high rate of violent crime. Local media report about 20 dead since trouble broke out a week ago.

The unrest is an embarrassment for a country that has vaunted its tolerance since the end of apartheid and an indicator of growing disaffection among South Africa's poor.

President Thabo Mbeki and ruling ANC party leader Jacob Zuma have called for an end to the violence, which threatens a new strain on an economy struggling with rising inflation, power outages and a skills shortage.
Hundreds of immigrants have taken refuge in police stations, churches and government offices.

"At the moment some of the people have been taken to the city hall as a place of safety, but some of them are still running around and do not know where to go," police spokesman Veli Nhlapo told SABC.
Police fired rubber bullets at gangs of youths, who patrolled unruly streets, armed with sticks, rocks and knives. Scores have been arrested in connection with the violence.

South African newspapers carried photos of a man who was set alight by a mob on the weekend. Callers to radio stations urged authorities to impose curfews and bring in the army to restore order in some of the most violent areas.

Among the immigrants are an estimated 3 million Zimbabweans who fled economic collapse at home. The immigrants say they more often the victims of crime than perpetrators.

The Zimbabweans, like others on the continent, have been lured by work in South Africa's mines, farms and homes, and by one of the world's most liberal immigration and refugee policies.

Aid group Medecins Sans Frontieres said the situation in the townships now amounted to a humanitarian crisis.

Link

It is pretty much a sad thing to say, under the Apartheid regime South Africa was heaven - relatively speaking of course. The Crime Rate is one of the highest in the world, approximately 40% of the South African population carry AIDS while it wasn't that way at all when the Apartheid regime existed.

[Dr. Croccer]

*Apartheid

All the fault of the colonial empires of course, they didn't stabilize it despite leaving a succesful nation with racism.


[/sarcasm]

[Aziel]

*Apartheid


[/sarcasm]

I think I wrote it correctly.

[Каие]

So what bring back Apartheid.

[Tajir]

Bring back Apartheid. South African Blacks are really pissing on any reputation they had. They aren't attacking White settlers or Indian settlers, they're attacking unarmed African immigrants.

Bring back Apartheid, SA Blacks prove how useful it was as a tool. No wonder they don't mess with Indian and White settlers, they know they will be kept in check if they do so.

[Dismounted H@Xx0rZ]

Yeah we should bring back apartheid. Ever notice how every nation built by white men is First rate but every majority black nation is crap?

Yeah, it's not racist if it's the truth because racism implies a lie.

[Tajir]

Yeah we should bring back apartheid. Ever notice how every nation built by white men is First rate but every majority black nation is crap?

Yeah, it's not racist if it's the truth because racism implies a lie.

I wouldn't go that far because only Africans are incapable of independent existence. I think Africans have become too dependent on their colonialist masters. The only thing to do now is to bring back the whip. At least when the White man was around, every African respected their neighboring tribe.

[RZZZA]

So the lesson of this thread is "don't go to south africa"

Noted, not that i was ever planning on taking my pale white ass to africa, but duly noted for future reference regardless.

[Tajir]

So the lesson of this thread is "don't go to south africa"

Noted, not that i was ever planning on taking my pale white ass to africa, but duly noted for future reference regardless.

Blacks don't touch Whites or Indians in South Africa. They'll treat you like a God in fact. The ruling ANC is as Black Nationalist as Bryant Gumbel, they only tolerate Black on Black violence, in fact they sometimes applaud it.

You'll be fine. The more pale, the more safe.

[Syron]

What comes around goes around.......

You'll be fine. The more pale, the more safe.

Well, you are probably more likely to be the victim of theft.


I have family a little way out of Joburg, i don't know what it's like where they are at the moment though.

[ivan_the_terrible]

And this is a country the CIA considers "first world"...

I agree that these people are 'pissing on their credibility'. They had the moral high ground when they fought the apartheid regime. Attacking immigrants though, thats just low. Kind of makes you wonder which was worse, official inequality based on race but with law and order, or nominal equality for all but with living conditions.

[Tajir]

Ivan, South Africa is still a first-world country regardless of a few slums and some violence. But if you take out the Whites, Indians, and "mixed" population, South Africa will become another Zimbabwe. I'm sad to say, but purely Black countries are doomed for failure. The purest of African states are in the horn and the region is a tragedy unto itself.

If you go there, the indigenous Blacks are probably the poorest people in the country, that's where this bitterness comes from and its not new. African migrants in SA have been complaining for over a decade yet this is the first time its been publicized. Hell, I've lost a few cousins because of some angry locals in SA.

[Erik]

Kind of makes you wonder which was worse, official inequality based on race but with law and order, or nominal equality for all but with living conditions.

Average income in SA dropped between 1975 and 1994, and rose again since 1994.
So economically SA is doing much better after the abolishment of apartheid than during the last two decades of apartheid.
source: http://www.gapminder.org/world/

I don't have crime statistics, but I doubt everything was "pais en vree" in the black communities during the apartheid regime.
Didn't the whites care only about their own safety, not that of blacks?

AIDS is a new problem, but you can hardly blame that on the fall of apartheid.

And btw: have we all forgotten how Europeans and Americans have always treated refugees when they flooded into their country in large numbers?
You honestly think we are any better?

[Aziel]

Erik,

Although the South African GDP is one of the highest in Africa, the South African Median Income is one of the lowest in Africa. The reason the South African GDP is high is because it is rich in natural resources and they are constitute the main source of the South African exporting. In addition, most of South African natural resources are held by foreign companies, thus the income output is very high and that is why the GDP is also high. The main reason the GDP rose after 1994 is because of the heavy economical sanctions the international community have execute against the Apartheid regime.

The salary rates in South Africa are low and the that is why the Median Income is low, and even minimum wage laws are not enforced. Median Income indicator from which you can conclude the Purchasing Power of the Median Citizen (the average Citizen). The Median Income represent the majority of a state's citizens and the Median life quality is the most common. When a considerable life quality is not assured as a result of a work the average people will might commit crimes. The poverty rates in developed countries do not note the rate of the hungry people but the rate of the people that their life quality does not provide a financial security, while in Least Developed Countries poverty rates represent hunger because in Least Developed Countries poverty represent an extremely low high quality and when you can't finance your needs you have no choice but to crime. And as you can see here and here South Africa is one of the most dangerous places in the world.

The reason the AIDS rate in South Africa is because of the South African lack of will and sometimes the power to found a health foundation and fighting the virus. South Africa doesn't have a basis of educated people and it declared a crisis of "Brains Leaking" at 1999.

[Erik]

Although the South African GDP is one of the highest in Africa, the South African Median Income is one of the lowest in Africa.

And the median income was better during apartheid?

The main reason the GDP rose after 1994 is because of the heavy economical sanctions the international community have execute against the Apartheid regime.

Which still means apartheid was to blame for the poor economy of SA.

And as you can see here and here South Africa is one of the most dangerous places in the world.

I'm not questioning this.
I'm questioning if things were really any better during apartheid.

The reason the AIDS rate in South Africa is because of the South African lack of will and sometimes the power to found a health foundation and fighting the virus. South Africa doesn't have a basis of educated people and it declared a crisis of "Brains Leaking" at 1999.

And going back to apartheid would solve this.....how?

Azael33, if you want to make an argument in favor of apartheid you need to compare the same or similar countries under apartheid vs under mixed race relations.
Just saying: "Country x isn't scoring high" doesn't prove that putting them under racist leadership will make things any better.

But I suppose you are just so convinced of the supremacy of you own race that you can't even consider the idea that non-Whites/Jews can do a half decent job as well sometimes.

[jankren]

Lol, I cant believe someone is actually defending apartheid.

[Aziel]

Erik,

As a result of the international sanctions against the Apartheid regime South Africa became economically unstable and as the South African-under Apartheid last president, Frederik Willem de Klerk, recognized the economical insatiability he ordered Nelson Mandela to be released. Although the Apartheid South African economy was unstable in it's last days, the Apartheid South Africa had a higher median income. Between 1995 to 2000 the median income dropped in 40%. Today's median income is 12,000 South African Rand (1,566.37 USD) while at 1995 it was 28,000 South African Rand (3,654.87 USD). It's a 58% income drop in only 13 years. For further reading, click here and here.

South Africa has a huge potential, blaming the Apartheid regime for the troubles of todays ignores reality. The reality is that although the Apartheid South African economy was unstable, it wasn't as bad as it was today considering the different factors existing. South Africa has a Brain Leaking because of its economy, and if they wouldn't fix it there will be created a circle of poverty.

As for crime under the Apartheid, here is a chart showing the rise of crime since 1994 to 2002, published in the SA Crime Quarterly No 2, November 2002:

And here is an article about it, if you are interested

Erik, you also seem to misunderstood me; I do not support the Apartheid regime and do not want it to be re-established, I was simply saying that the fact that the Apartheid regime was canceled didn't make the South Africans lives better, and as you can see their lives are getting worse and worse.


jankren,

I am not defending Apartheid.

[Heinz Guderian]

I am not defending Apartheid.

d00d, what are you doing? Srsly man. The Nazis implemented apartheid in the 1930s for the Jews.

[Aziel]

d00d, what are you doing? Srsly man. The Nazis implemented apartheid in the 1930s for the Jews.

But I didn't defend Apartheid. I didn't said they had better economy because of Apartheid or that kind of things. I don't understand why people keep accusing me for defending Apartheid.

[Aziel]

Erik, I edited my post as a result of a mistake I had regarding the Apartheid South Africa median income, it was higher than today's South African median income.